"Chaz Ebert on the Power of FECK: Transforming Lives with Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion, and Kindness"

Chaz Ebert Giving a FRECK
[00:00:00] 
Fawn: Welcome back everybody. Hello we have a very special guest today an honored guest. I'd like to read a little something and then I'll tell you what the book is and I'll introduce you to Your new friend in just a bit.
 Here we go. Wherever you are in the world and in your life What can you offer in the name of forgiveness, empathy, compassion, and kindness? What can you give to your community to your neighbor to your colleague or friend? Contributions in the name of love are what move our world forward toward a place of greater connection and unity. 
Giving a feck, F E C K, giving a feck is a movement toward achieving greater unity and love for all. A movement that is needed now more than ever. It's about taking these matters to heart and choosing to become a part of the [00:01:00] conversation. It is also about sharing the philosophical principles that matter for the betterment of our local and global societies. 
The four FECK principles are what will progress our culture along in a more orderly manner and make this a more pleasant world in which to live. 
Wherever you are in the world and in your life, what can you offer in the name of forgiveness, empathy, compassion, and kindness? What can you give to your community, to your neighbor? to your calling or friend. Contributions in the name of love are what move our world forward toward a place of greater connection and unity.
Giving effect is a movement toward achieving greater unity and love for all. A movement that is needed now more than ever. It's about taking these matters to heart and choosing to become a part of the conversation. It is also about sharing the philosophical principles that matter for the betterment of our local and global societies.
The four FEC principles are what will help progress our culture along in a more orderly manner and make this a more pleasant world in which to live.
Everybody, this is written by Chaz Ebert. the book is called, It's Time to Give a FECK. F. E. C. K. Elevating Humanity Through Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion, and Kindness.
I mean, Matt, did we luck out or what? What a great fecking friend. Everybody, I would like you to meet Chaz Ebert. Chaz, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. 
CHAZ EBERT: Thank you. Thank you, Fawn. And thank you, Matt. Fawn, I have to tell you, I have never heard [00:02:00] anyone read that particular passage of the book back to me.
And even though I wrote it, I have to say, It's beautiful. 
Fawn: It's so beautiful. You are beautiful. I mean, my goodness. I'm, I'm awestruck. I don't even know how to talk to you right now. Because, I mean, you are amazing. What you've done in the world, what you are doing in the world, is totally what ... Is what it's walking.
It's it's walking the talk, right, Matt? 
MATT: Yes. 
Fawn: I mean, and your background. 
CHAZ EBERT: The other thing, though, is hearing you read it, you read it with such conviction. And I know that the way that from the way that you read it, that you are a person who is walking that talk? You didn't just read it [00:03:00] academically. No, you read it in a way that it really touched my heart.
Fawn: I love you, Chaz. Thanks for saying that because sometimes I do struggle and we'll talk about it on this show, like the forgiveness part. 
MATT: Honestly, as I was going through it, I was like, there are people out there. I'm never going to forgive. 
CHAZ EBERT: They've done me wrong. Matt forgiveness is the hardest part of it.
To me, there were, there are some people that I talked to as I go around the country, and even out of the country on my book tour. I ask people of these four principles, which one is the most difficult for you? And I'm surprised. Some people say empathy. Anyone, I don't think the, I think only one person said kindness, maybe a couple people said compassion, but by far the biggest number forgiveness is the hardest.
So [00:04:00] Matt. You are, you're in good company, but it means that it's a principle that is, is probably going to mean the most to you. Because when I talk about forgiveness in the book, I think I explained, I used to think that forgiveness was something that we did for someone else. Oh, we're magnanimous.
We're so good. You wronged me. And I'm such a big person. I'm going to forgive you. And then Archbishop Desmond Tutu said, no, you do forgiveness. Yes, for the other person, but it's a biggie thing that you do for yourself because without forgiveness, There is nothing without forgiveness you remain a victim, and you carry that weight around on your shoulder, and you think you have the superior position, and you don't.
You're a prisoner. And I had never thought of forgiveness that way. And with him telling me that, I was [00:05:00] able to actually get down on my knees to ask for help in forgiving someone for something I had been carrying around for a while. And it's true. Once I forgave them, I felt lighter immediately. And I did feel free.
I was no longer feeling like a victim. And it just, it opened up space in my heart to let in more light and more love. Right. 
MATT: And, and to me, that was a large part of it. Citing examples from your book. I mean, what you're going to look at, Archbishop Desmond Tutu 
 
MATT: and go, what do you know?
No, you're never going to say that. Right. It's kind of one of these unimpeachable resources. Uh, and, and the other examples you went through in your book, it's like, wow, the stuff I'm hauling around is pretty trivial compared to all this stuff. But 
CHAZ EBERT: you know, to me, it 
MATT: was, 
CHAZ EBERT: You 
MATT: know, you're doing it, you're doing it for yourself.
But it doesn't 
CHAZ EBERT: feel trivial to us, it happens to us. Yes, it happens to us, it doesn't feel trivial. It feels, it's [00:06:00] hurtful and it feels harmful. 
MATT: Yes. 
CHAZ EBERT: And we feel almost self righteous. Yes. About it. I'm, I'm, I can't wait to be, I'm sorry, Fawn go ahead. 
Fawn: No, I'm sorry. , it just makes me think of, a couple of years ago I heard a Holocaust survivor talk she was a psychologist and she was talking about pain and, she said that one of her clients came in and she had heard this from many people.
They came in and they said, well, I'm having trouble telling you about my pain. Because my pain compared to the pain you went through because she lost her entire family in the holocaust 
?: And 
Fawn: what she kept saying was pain is pain There's it's that the same degree for everybody like my pain isn't more than your pain Pain is pain So I guess it's the same, right?
Maybe which, which I guess we're diving in there because I wanted to tell people about your background and
CHAZ EBERT: this is your show. I know it's [00:07:00] not. 
Fawn: No, this is not a conversation. It's a conversation. We're having drinks together at the breakfast at the dinner breakfast lunch table. No, this is not my show, but it's a conversation. I do have a gift for the gap, but can I just briefly, can we not lose focus? Can I just briefly, like, just tell people, your background, as a lawyer, so now you're a lawyer and entertainment manager. You have degrees in political science and social science. You litigated for the Environmental Protection Agency. Then you focused on mergers and acquisitions.
I know that and intellectual property. Then you worked with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, focusing on race and age based workplace discrimination. I mean, I don't want to fight with you, Chaz, or I want you on our side. And so you've had this amazing. Amazing, scholastic, rich, [00:08:00] brainy life.
 Oh, this is going to sound terrible. I'm like, how did you get into the entertainment industry? 
CHAZ EBERT: Well, because of, through my late husband, Roger Ebert, I was practicing law when we met and we started dating. How did you 
Fawn: meet? 
CHAZ EBERT: We met. In Chicago we , ran around in the same circles, but that's part of the story.
But the other part of the story is we met at an AA meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. And we both had been, sober for many years and he was taking Ann Landers, who was a friend of his to a meeting because she wanted to update, she used to write a pamphlet, you know, Ann Landers and Dear Abby, the, advice columnist.
Yes. So, Ann Landers was a friend of his and , she wanted to go to a meeting so she could update her 20 questions on alcoholism pamphlet. [00:09:00] It's a funny story because he said she picked him up in this long stretch limousine to take him to an AA meeting. So the long stretch limousine pulls up outdoors and it was a closed meeting, which means that it's only for people who identify as a alcoholic or recovering alcoholic.
And so. They went into the meeting and he went in and explained, Oh, I have Ann Landers out there. And she thought they would say, Oh yeah, bring her in. They said, no, we're sorry. This is a closed meeting. She can't come in. So he said, Oh, so he went back out to the limousine. He says, uh, I'm sorry. You can't come into this.
And she said, Well, I'll be alcoholics. Won't let in Landers into the meeting. And so he, he took her to another meeting. That was an open meeting, open to anyone who wanted to come and listen. And he was sitting down in that meeting was a little late [00:10:00] that night and I walked in and he said, he looked up and he saw me and wanted to meet me.
He saw that I was looking for a chair and he pushed a chair out into the aisle to make sure I sat next to him. And I sat down and I looked over at him and I looked like, Oh, that's Roger Ebert. And then I looked next to him and that's Ann Landers. What kind of meeting is this?
Anyway, so that's how we met. 
Fawn: Got it. Okay. So now we're going to dive back in. Can we dive back in? Oh, 
MATT: where were we? 
Fawn: Where were we? 
CHAZ EBERT: So we were talking about how it became an entertainment, mogul. Uh, so I was practicing law and he was looking for someone to run his company because he liked the very creative parts of what he did.
He did not like business and he went looking for someone he could trust. And after we were dating for a while, he realized that I was good at business and He asked me if I would mind becoming the vice president of the Ebert [00:11:00] company. And I had to think about whether I wanted to give up the practice of law to do it.
And. I realized that, you know, he traveled so much and we wouldn't see each other if I didn't do it. And it turned out that we worked very well together. So that's how I got into the entertainment field. 
Fawn: It's so amazing. I hope it's okay that I asked about how you met and everything.
 I just find it amazing how our wind you think you're going one way and it's just, your work ends up being a part of everything in life. If you look at it, we're not one thing. So going back to your beautiful book on these principles of forgiveness, empathy, compassion, kindness. I was going to say you guys that I actually have, I think a bigger problem with empathy because I'm on overdrive, overdrive.
Fawn: I am literally at the grocery store feeling someone I can't even see in the next aisle over. I can [00:12:00] feel them and sometimes I forget to shut it down because then I, then I'm like, honey, we got to get out of here. Empath big time. Yes. And so I mean, and then also the forgiveness thing. I, let's dive in deep because I do have a lot of questions.
 I totally understand forgiveness. I've had to do a lot of forgiving, not forgetting, but forgiving. There is something interesting I wanted to talk about. Can we start on the forgiveness? Can I just put something out there? 
?: Okay. 
Fawn: So forgiveness, it's something that I've been thinking about a lot, but You were talking about how you were with Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
Yes. And you, what you did, what I found very interesting about what you said, Which answered one of my big questions is what are the steps you take to actually forgive in a healthy way? what you said was you asked for help and I think [00:13:00] that is probably the main key.
 If you don't do that, if you don't ask for help, then I think here's what happens. So in the 1980s,
MATT: as my kids would say, the 1900s, I'd like to say that now, and it's like, dang. 
CHAZ EBERT: That is, oh, wow. 
MATT: Right? It's a little painful. 
CHAZ EBERT: Interesting way to think of it.
MATT: Way 1900s. 
CHAZ EBERT: Remember when we were younger and we would say something happened in the 1800s. 
MATT: Exactly. 
CHAZ EBERT: And that was like really old times. And we're from the 1900s. Oh, my God. 
MATT: Yes, exactly. 
Fawn: Okay. There we go. All right. All right. So, in the 1980s, Francisco Ayala, a biologist. I think he was from UC Irvine. a friend of the Dalai Lamas. and what he started doing was, document and to really understand what it is for these [00:14:00] Tibetan monks.
What stages do they go through exactly? Because he was trying to find out why, out of all the populations on the planet, what is it about the Tibetan monks that they have the highest case of diabetes? And it's not And they're vegetarians and they're Well, first they thought, well, they maybe have too much sugar, maybe they do because of the climate they live in, they eat a certain way, but they found that that was not the case at all.
And so what it turned out to be was this mind body approach. And in my own layman terms, I guess I would say, it has to be authentic when you forgive. Ugh, okay, I'm not a scientist, but here's what happens. when the body, the body knows, like the body can sense what is a foreign thing that it needs to get rid of.
Um, so if there's a microbe or if there's [00:15:00] something that comes into your body, your immune system is, is actually not a defender. The immune system is, I think, I think something that kind of judges like from, from your mind, is this, is this a friend or a foe, correct? So why is it that you can take food?
and the body doesn't reject it. Unless there's a microbe or a micro organism in there that reproduces. Then it's like, uh oh, it's reproducing something else. I'm gonna fight it. I'm gonna get it out of the body one way or another. However, how come it doesn't have, it doesn't do the same thing with food, right?
Or pills we take, that your body will accept that. So they were looking at that and I swear this goes back to forgiveness So they found that the body someone can eat something but if you suddenly tell them hey that was poisoned Then the body starts rejecting it, right? Right. [00:16:00] So What happens with?
These Tibetan monks that have been through incredible pain, their friends have been slaughtered like all kinds of horrible ways. They've seen death and total destruction, yet they go into total state of, compassion loving kindness, the thing is that your body. knows the truth. If you're going to tell your body, Hey, I don't want to feel this anymore.
Turn it off, turn it off. What it does is it gives you endorphins so you don't feel that thing anymore. And then what happens is that if for a long period of time, if you're constantly, having endorphins, what happens is your body produces glucose,
it affects your metabolism. Okay. I'm not a scientist, but your glucose levels go up and your insulin levels go down. And that creates type two diabetes. So [00:17:00] they were looking at that and, uh, and it's just interesting. I always thought about people who have diabetes. If 
CHAZ EBERT: I, I, I have to say, I don't know if I buy that theory.
I have to read that study because. I, your endorphins are gonna c
Fawn: If it's, if it's a chronic state of constantly having these endorphins, if you're, if your body is not allowed to feel, if you're not like a dog shakes, you're not allowed 
CHAZ EBERT: to feel real. other feelings other than just compassion. I don't, I I, it very interesting. I'm not going to, I just like to read that study.
Fawn: It's talking about how you really need to come to terms with how you're feeling. And like you said, you asked for help, you asked for the, for forgiveness to go away. So for, For these certain people who suddenly go to compassion, go [00:18:00] to forgiveness without acknowledging that there was pain here, that they experienced pain.
I think we should definitely acknowledge that we have pain. Right. And then you 
CHAZ EBERT: have to acknowledge it. I agree with you, Fawn. You have to acknowledge it and acknowledge the hurt, acknowledge the trauma, and then, but then you have to reach a point where you're just. As they say, sick and tired of being sick and tired, and you don't want to carry that around anymore.
And you're looking for, for me, speaking just for myself, and then I had to figure out how do I get rid of it. And I finally just got on my knees and said, help me. 
Fawn: Right? And I think that's the abracadabra approach, if I can say it that way. I think that is , the thing, the what's the button you can press that will take you to where you need to go immediately?
That's the, the, the easy button. The reset button. The easy button [00:19:00] button button. Oh, nice. The easy button. So the easy 
?: button, the easy 
Fawn: button ask is to ask for help. Like if you, if it's, if it's something that you truly are having a hard time with. It's hard to relive that pain and acknowledge it over and over again.
It's not working. I think the easy button is to ask for help. Take it away. Please take this feeling. But I think 
MATT: you're ready to have it taken. 
Fawn: Right. 
MATT: You know, um, 
CHAZ EBERT: the thing that in the book that I, when I write about some of the people, some of the cases, 
MATT: I 
CHAZ EBERT: bought some pretty hard, it's really difficult to believe that people could forgive in those instances and forgive immediately.
But they do. They let me know. It's not always a once and done thing. Okay. We forgive. And we step back. And as Fawn said, you forgive, you may not forget. So maybe you have to forgive again and forgive again. Sometimes with [00:20:00] some people they forgive and it's. Like, really, almost magically, divinely released, uh, so.
MATT: Well, yeah, I, a couple of things, you know. I thought it was interesting that one of the cases you cited was Amish, and I don't want to get into the specifics of it, but they ended up, Destroying the schoolhouse to get closure and the community needed to do that. And you know, the Amish people, Oh yes, they're so turn the other cheek.
Yeah, but they still destroyed the schoolhouse and built one a mile down the road because sometimes those. Physical reminders get you and, and it is a process and we're not all, nobody's as holy as they seem, right? 
CHAZ EBERT: That's right. 
MATT: And that, that's a big thing. The other thing I thought that was interesting is when you were going through and talking about how do you get to that state of forgiveness, you talked about, be grateful.
for [00:21:00] stuff, be grateful. You're alive. Be grateful. You're healthy. Be grateful, whatever it is, but be, you know, enter into a world of being grateful. And we're all about that here. Yes. And then don't you dare have the story be the story that you're the victim. You don't have to reframe 
CHAZ EBERT: it. Reframe it. Yes, absolutely.
And that's essential. 
MATT: And prove to yourself where the error happened. What was the mistake? What was the, you 
?: know, 
MATT: And that's part of, and maybe that's, that's your process, but I'm very much empath, I very much empathize with that. It very much jives with where I'm at. 
Fawn: Yes. Should we move on to empathy? 
CHAZ EBERT: Yes, because I want to hear your part about empathy Fawn
Fawn: I can fall on the ground and want to hide in my bed under the pillow. With the amount of that like I can't that's the reason why I can't watch movies anymore, especially since I became a [00:22:00] mom Oh, I can not watch 90 percent of movies out there or TV shows It's that I can't do it. I cannot. I, um, it's too, I mean, I, I feel and, and, and I have to get myself to a place of having empathy and then balancing it with compassion so I can help someone.
So, so I'm not devastated and a mess. So then I'm able to be strong for someone 
CHAZ EBERT: else. You know, movies are, that's, that, that's my profession, the, website for movie reviews, and I also, as a producer, produce films, and now I'm directing my first documentary about, a, a 102 year old woman who, , starred, we called her the wellness warrior, that's what she called herself from ages 90 to 100 and because she wanted people to take, control of their [00:23:00] own health and wellness and not leave it up to big pharma or a lot of medications.
And so she started a spa when she was 17 or 18 years old with her husband, the professor who was like 17 or 18 years older than her. And she started Rancho La Puerta in Tecate, Mexico. And then about 1959, I think she started the Golden Door in Escondido, California. Now she's 102. She ended up selling the Golden Door when her son, was sick.
He had cancer. He knew he was going to die within a year. His one wish was to travel around the world, so she had to sell the golden door in order to get the money to help her son travel around the world before he died. And she said that when she sold it, even the next day after she signed it, she wanted to buy it back.
She knew it was the wrong thing to do for the long term, but she did it because she loved her son so much. Anyway, [00:24:00] so she still at 102 owns Ranch Le Puerta and she still goes once a week to lecture there every week on Wednesday. And so I was with her about two weeks ago in Mexico where she was lecturing and she loved these principles in the book, even though she's not a warm, fuzzy person, she, even at a hundred and two, she's very like Fawn, 
I would love to see you interacting. Her name is Deborah Szekely. I would love to see you. fact, you and Matt should probably be guests. At Rancho La Puerta. That would be amazing. To talk about friendship. Yeah. To talk about friendship and what you're doing. Because this is, oh my God, the people who go there are some of the kindest people I've met.
People go there for exercise and health and all of that kind of stuff. But they also go there for the mind, body, spiritual [00:25:00] connection, and to connect with like minded people. And I think the kind of things that you and Matt do with this podcast, Would be great. You would be great guests there one night.
So anyway, I'm sorry. 
Fawn: That's amazing. 
CHAZ EBERT: Always. 
Fawn: Always. That's how we roll. I love it. Wait, how did we end up here? I got lost in the, in the golden door Yes. Empathy and compassion. . 
CHAZ EBERT: Well, because really. I'm putting myself in your shoes now and thinking, okay, if I'm talking about this, where could I find other like minded people?
And I was putting myself, I was being empathetic to you and Matt putting myself in your shoes and thinking, where can I find more like minded people? Hey, at Rancho La Puerta so 
Fawn: you anyway, um, how can, do you mind sharing with us how you handle empathy and [00:26:00] compassion and how you balance the two? 
CHAZ EBERT: So, with empathy, I say that in the FECK principles, the E, I say, stands for Empathy or Ebert.
Because it was my late husband, Roger Ebert, who said that movies are a machine that generates empathy, that allows you, two hours at a time, to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's different than you. Someone who may be a different gender, a different age, a different race or ethnicity, a different religion, who speaks a different language, who is a different socioeconomic class than you.
You put yourself in their shoes and you get to feel what it is like to be them, to empathize with them, to develop compassion for them. to help one to alleviate a challenge or a suffering that they have. And that's where the acts of kindness come in. So empathy is something that [00:27:00] we, as a couple, really was a, that was really part of our philosophy.
And when we started our film festival, the Ebert Fest Film Festival in Champaign, Illinois, about 25 years ago, It was to try to show, bring people together to talk about empathy through the movies. And, it was after he passed away that I started thinking, okay, you have empathy, what do you do with it?
And that's how I came up with the other principles of compassion, kindness, and then forgiveness, which was the biggie. 
Fawn: There was a part in your book that you were describing where, Your husband was no longer able to communicate with words, but it took, was it empathy or compassion?
Which one was it that you almost started to have a telepathic experience. Like you understood everything. 
CHAZ EBERT: He lost his ability to speak. And this is a man who made his living [00:28:00] speaking, doing, you know, film review
 He got, he was called on as a speaker a lot because it was a great speaker. He was a great raconteur, storyteller, and people loved to get, invite him to speak when he lost his ability to speak and he had to communicate with his computer or with the computerized voice that was made for him by a company called Sarah Prague.
It was different because he said he would get so frustrated. He said, This computer doesn't know how to tell my jokes because he loved telling jokes and you have to be, there's a certain thing that you do when you tell jokes, the timing. And he said, this computer doesn't have the timing to tell jokes.
Anyway, yeah, there was a point when he first lost his ability to speak. Felt it so deeply. It was so, it was so hard. It was so difficult. It was so, And I really started trying to figure out how he felt. And I said, of course, [00:29:00] I laid in his hospital bed and he would get up to see what was it like looking?
What, what was he, what was he thinking when he was looking at these four walls every day as he was in the hospital a long time? How could it feel? How did it feel to know that he'd opened his mouth to speak and no words would come out? Someone who prided himself on speaking. He also had. Someone who prided himself on eating.
He was a big man and he could no longer eat except with a feeding tube. So I started empathizing so much with him that yes, we did start communicating telepathically. And sometimes we didn't even know it at first, but it was, we were giving a dinner party one night and two film critics, Michael Phillips from the Chicago Tribune and A.
O. Scott from the New York Times. Where they were at our house at a dinner party. Roger was upstairs and I was [00:30:00] downstairs with them and I looked up stairs and we started talking to each other and, Michael and, and, and Tony Scott looked at me and they said, what are you, what are you doing? And I said, oh, I'm talking to Roger and they said, but he didn't say anything.
I said, yes, he did. And then I realized, oh, I received it telepathically. And I knew what he wanted, and we started talking back and forth, and then he started using his machine. But I realized that there were many times that we were in a different room, and I knew, or I heard him speak. Speak with quotes around it or he heard me speak and he would come and show up and, um, we did started communicating telepathically with each other.
Fawn: Thank you for it. Is it okay that I asked you this? I'm really sorry. I guess it's too late now because I already asked you.
I think you're incredibly generous.[00:31:00] 
Thank you for my very invasive questions. I hope it's okay that I asked you. Well, you had 
CHAZ EBERT: no, you had no way of knowing that those were the answers, but that, you know, it's, it's, it's okay. Are you okay? Yes. 
Fawn: You're, you're okay talking about it? 
CHAZ EBERT: Yes. 
Fawn: Thank you. In fact, 
CHAZ EBERT: that part is so beautiful. It's like a gift to talk about it.
And it's a gift to acknowledge it and a gift to remember it. 
Fawn: I think that it's a, it's something that we can all use, like, I think a true friend. or a person, anyone you're having a beautiful relationship with, whether it's your children, your husband, the squirrel outside, I often, refer to the squirrels outside, but there is a communication that's happening always, and I think that we definitely need to give more credit to its presence that it is there.
And I think that the world is [00:32:00] so much better. Our relationships are so much better when we feel these other forces that we can't see and I think that's the key. That is one of the keys to friendship is that. That opening up yourself, opening up your heart and having that kind of empathy and compassion that leads to the most beautiful communications and friendships, relationships, which leads us to kindness and wow, I mean, You can't be kind without all the others.
MATT: Well, it's interesting. Does kindness stem from, oh, wait a minute. 
Fawn: Or can it, I'm sorry. Does it stem from what? So empathy, 
MATT: right, go ahead. Am I being really on some level kind to myself because I see myself in you? 
CHAZ EBERT: Is it sometimes, is it 
MATT: selfish? Self-serving?
CHAZ EBERT: No, self caring, self caring. And self caring, there 
MATT: you go. Maybe. 
Fawn: We did a podcast on [00:33:00] kindness, remember? Kindness versus, what was the other one? We were, we were noticing The difference between East Coast people and West Coast people. Niceness versus kindness. That was it. There is a difference between being nice and being kind.
Nice isn't always authentic. I feel. That's how we, that's how I, I The, 
MATT: the saying was, is, what was it? West Coast people are Nice but not kind. East Coast people are kind but not necessarily nice. Wonderful. 
Fawn: Wonderful. Not to be judgmental. So as they're 
MATT: changing your tire, they're scolding you for letting it get so bald.
Fawn: Oh, okay. But truly, the East Coast people are so lovely. But they, but all you hear if you're from the West Coast is, how brash they are, how harsh they are, abrupt, mean, but really they care about you and [00:34:00] they'll stop and help you out even if they don't know you. But that's all of humanity. Honestly, I feel like, you know, I'm so sorry to be judgmental and like labels on one coast versus the other or whatever one, one culture versus another.
 But I think also what I want to say is what, what I gathered. From you, Chaz. What, what I've learned is that to have FECK to have the forgiveness, empathy, compassion, and kindness, it has to stem from a place of authenticity. 
CHAZ EBERT: You know, in the beginning. It doesn't have to, I mean, it doesn't, but it does.
But, it's like a mirror. That you're looking into, because sometimes what you put out is what you get back. And, I did this experiment once in an airport I got up one morning and I pretended that the sun was inside me and I had [00:35:00] to beam out the sun rays. And I was the sun. And I was beaming friendship and love as I was walking down this corridor at an airport.
And I swear, the reaction I got back was different that day than other days when I'm walking down the airport. Was it because I was more aware of people? And it's not like I was, like, staring at them or just smiling. No, but I was In my mind, beaming out sun, beaming out good thoughts. And I had more people smile or wave to me or say hello that day than I did any other day when I was walking in an airport.
And so, uh, I, you know, 
Fawn: You're speaking our language. We talk about this all the time. Even though Matt, I always say Matt is such a, um, what do you call it? Is the word pragmatic? What, [00:36:00] you know, like you're very numbers oriented, analytical, however. I'm 
CHAZ EBERT: a pragmatic person. He's a dreamer and I'm a dreamer and a pragmatist at the same time.
Fawn: Yes. Yes. We always talk about , the phenomenon of, this interconnectedness that we have like how people, if you're in a building far away and you're staring at someone down the street and there's no one else around, the person. turns around and looks right at you because they can feel you looking at them.
So it's like, we are the sun. Whatever you focus on. That can be felt, correct? I love it. It's just, 
MATT: I think as humans, we're almost afraid to show people sometimes our power. Yeah. Which is, is a very, very strange thing, but You know, to me, it feels like, it's almost like you should have titled the book.
"It's Time to Give a FECK" Yes, [00:37:00] absolutely. But like the F feels like it needed to be 10 times bigger than the other letters because it all stems from that space. As far as, forgiving yourself and feeling your own power. And then, you know, from there, I like to move from strength to strength. That's, that's, that's my thing.
Right. Especially when I'm writing code, it's like, I don't want things to be wrong in 20 places. I want everything to be working. And then I want to break one place and fix one place. And then I want to break another place and fix that place. So it's just strength to strength. And it feels very similar to me as far as, you know, it's much easier for me to, give the ECK, E C K if I've, I, if I've satisfied the F.
Fawn: Yes. I'll take that one out of context. I have another question. Chaz, can I ask you another question? Sure. Did you give this book to the politicians so they can embrace, I read that. 
CHAZ EBERT: Well, I haven't done it yet. [00:38:00] And it's something that I'm hoping to do. I live in Chicago and the Democratic National Convention starts here August 19th.
And I'm going to get, take a whole pile of books and To some of the events and see if I can give them away. Because I think it starts with the top down because a lot of things are also grassroots up, but I think that we are open as a society. We are tired of people being torn apart and polarized.
We want some joy. We want some happiness. We want some hope. We want to be able to look at the future and be able to look at the person sitting next to us and say this person is on this journey with us, and what can we create together? I mean, that's the way I feel. That's the world that I'm looking forward to.
And I think that when we have our politicians, whether there are, Our presidential [00:39:00] candidates, our congressional candidates, our local mayors or city councilmen, when they are bringing joy to the community, from neighbor to neighbor, I think it's, that's communicated and that's, that's contagious.
I think that hope and love is as contagious as gloom and doom. And it's even actually more contagious. 
Fawn: It is. 
CHAZ EBERT: I want to spread more of that. 
Fawn: Let's get the word out. Everyone, everyone listening, please, please get this book, teach everyone what Chaz is saying, what we've all been saying. Our voices need to be very loud and clear.
And I know you have to go Chaz. I just want to read one small paragraph from your book. Okay. To close, to close this particular conversation today, if that's okay. 
CHAZ EBERT: Thank you, yes. 
Fawn: So you said, Forgiveness lays the foundation for us to be more empathetic, compassionate, and kind. [00:40:00] Empathy allows us to deeply understand and relate to others.
Compassion leads us to want to help alleviate the suffering and lift the spirits of others so they can fulfill their destinies. Kindness then becomes about the simple act that spur forgiveness, empathy, and compassion into action. Let's take action, everybody. Let's get the feck out there and make it fecking happen.
Can I say that? It's okay. 
MATT: Oh dear. 
Fawn: Yeah, we give a feck. Chaz, I am so grateful for you, thank you so much, and I hope to speak with you more often. 
MATT: Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. 
Fawn: Thank you for the beautiful work. Thank you, 
CHAZ EBERT: Matt. Thank you. Two beautiful, beautiful spirits, and I'm so glad.
that I came across to you. I just, this [00:41:00] is just so wonderful. Thank you. 
Fawn: Magnificent. I cannot believe it. I'm going to have, I always say I have Tourette's when good things happen. I have outbursts. I'm going to be outbursting all day.
We love you, Chaz. Oh, can you please tell our listeners how they can find you? How can they find your book? Everything, whatever you want to , tell the world right now. please, please let us know. 
CHAZ EBERT: "It's Time to Give a F E C K - Elevating Humanity Through Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion, and Kindness" can be found at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books, Inc, wherever you buy your books. And if you are interested in movies, go to my movie review site, RogerEbert. com. We have our new movies every Friday, but every day of the week, you can find us there. 
Fawn: And I will put everything in the show notes, everybody. So all the links will be in our show notes.
Thank you again, Chaz thank you. Thank you. We love you. Have a [00:42:00] beautiful every day. Every day. Have a beautiful every day. 
MATT: Be well.