CONNECTED – Roundtable #5 – The Art of Creativity and Compassion

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Fawn: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody. Welcome to connected where we are all interconnected and we're finding out ways in which we are. Today we have our beautiful friends. We have Paul ,Beth, Katy, and KJ today.

Matt: [00:00:17]  AND Matt! 

Fawn: [00:00:18] I'm sorry, babe. I'm sorry. Matt is here too. Everybody .Love is winning.  Today we are focusing on compassion, expression, emotion, creativity, in celebration of our friend KJ who's a psychotherapist and this amazing healer. Most of us just came off of one of her sessions she did with us a gathering. We had a gathering of creativity and compassion. So with that, I looked up the word art. And it's weird because I've been an artist most of my life, but everyone always freaks out on the [00:01:00] definition of it.

 I'm a photographer and a lot of people don't consider that art.  I found that very bizarre, but here's what it is. It's a noun, the expression or application of human, creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or a sculpture producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

Do you see that it doesn't even put music in there or poetry?

Matt: [00:01:30] I was going to call that out right away.

Yeah. Um, or dance, I mean, or literature, which is poetry too. I mean, definitions are very weird. And also how we define ourselves, how we define our societies, how we define our self-worth how we define everything.

I mean, my goodness, there's so much, there's so much. And so let's start off with KJ KJ. [00:02:00] Please tell everyone out there what we just went through like our, about our gathering. That didn't sound right. Tell everyone about our session with you because I went through a lot. I really went through a lot. I'm still trying to understand what the heck happened with my head.

KJ: [00:02:19] Oh, um, goodness. Well, thank you. By the way, for inviting me to speak a little bit about it.  The gathering that we just experienced earlier today was my invitation for folks to actually first define and identify what they do believe art and expression and compassion mean. And what I found over the years  of doing this research is that what you highlighted when we started this episode, Fawn is that there are clear cut definitions that we [00:03:00] have definitely embraced and I was curious as to where that came from and the hope of this gathering these meetings are to help folks redefine. So identify what we believe is creativity and expression and health and, and art and compassion and self care.  And then maybe redefine with our new and  current ways of being.

And I encourage it from an embodied sense. So the way that we wrapped up our meeting was, I asked people what they notice in their bodies first, how they are right now in the moment after we moved through a series of exercises and it included movement and  visual work, dialoguing, and then also sound and music.

 Our wonderful friend, Paul who's here today as well, played a little music for us.

Fawn: [00:03:56] It was so beautiful. It was so pretty, Paul

KJ: [00:03:59] beautiful. [00:04:00] And it was a way for us to, again, like I said, redefine or maybe change the way that we had been in, approaching, the way that we are compassionate, creative, expressive, and artistic in our own lives.

Fawn: [00:04:16] You brought up some words and you had us  free flow, free flow draw, and we will only have three seconds. So you  give us a word and we have three seconds to create a shape or something; an expression.

KJ: [00:04:31] Yes. And I had given a couple of instructions because I saw sort of a panic come across a couple of people's.

Fawn: [00:04:38] Did you see it? Did you see it? I did. Cause I was feeling it too. I thought it was just me. Oh no.

KJ: [00:04:47] Um, that is one of the cool things about  these sessions or these video sessions is I could see everybody and I could see like this flit of panic across people's faces when I said, so pull out your writing utensils are drawing utensils and we're going to draw.

[00:05:00] And I just kind of saw, saw this pause. Yeah. But then when I said, no, it's not drawing in the sense that we used to know it. I'm just asking for you to respond with marks on your paper. And I said, and you have three seconds to do it. Just your initial reactive response. Don't think about it. What is your pencil do?

What is your marker? Do, what is your paint brush do if you had a paintbrush and  because it was such a short period of time of reaction these were small pictures or just marks and that's how I guided it as well as just to say, don't put so much pressure on it and we don't have a lot of time.

What's your initial instinctive reaction?

Fawn: [00:05:41] It was so great. And it was so great that it was only three seconds and I had a tiny, tiny little sketchbook, like it's three inches high and two inches wide. And I was well, a little bit bigger than that, but it's interesting because one of the words, um, [00:06:00] I, it just, I, everything we did was tripping me out.

And I thought when I first started our session, I thought I've got this. I love this kind of stuff. I'm all over it. I'm so open. I know myself. And I ended up just like, I don't know, like I had a hard time in there. I mean, I had a good time, but I had a hard time if that makes any sense. So I want to bring up  the words that you brought up for us to draw with.

So the first one, it doesn't matter which one was, which I don't know if I have them in order, but we had fear, happiness, longing, or yearning, disgust, tense, joy, graceful song, them agitated, powerful. And we had cool. And I like for I'll just use myself as an example, but I had to  interrupt everyone and say, I need some therapy KJ, because I just realized [00:07:00]  the word agitated; I have two signatures in my life that I've had most of my life. There's one where I signed all my artwork to. And there's one that's  totally official for  legal paperwork and stuff, and they're totally different. And I noticed that the one for my art that I signed, like if I, when I have museum quality prints, I put my signature on, was exactly the agitated symbol that I made. I didn't even realize that. And I thought, what does that mean? And then I looked at the drawing I had for joy and it's totally joy and graceful. Those are my legal signatures. Like it looked the same. So that, that tripped me out. I'm like, KJ, is this why I haven't become a world renowned photographer, is because I feel agitated somehow regarding my work. Like, what is that about? And then you said, That's interesting because that same symbol I showed you for my [00:08:00] agitation was your strength or power.

KJ: [00:08:03] Right power, powerful.

Fawn: [00:08:05]  I was even more thoroughly confused. And it's just funny how one symbol can bring about so much emotion and let's look at life in general.

This is just one symbol that created so much profound- like I wanted to cry, like I was having a breakthrough, but I was so confused all over one tiny little,  scribble, but like so much is happening in life. And so much is happening in the world. How in the world do we keep? Is this why we're all going crazy?

Is this why the world is in such disarray? Because if one tiny symbol has tripped me up and I feel like I have my stuff together, if that little symbol trip to me up. And we have  all these things happening around the world and we're all experiencing it together. And there's a dance between all of us, what in the world are we going [00:09:00] through?

How are we going to make it through KJ? Katy,, Beth, Paul, Matt. Is it just me? Am I just overwhelmed? And what happened?

Matt: [00:09:13] Day by day? Yeah.

Fawn: [00:09:15] Yeah, but we keep putting things off. Oh, well, I'll get that tomorrow. Or I'll feel that tomorrow. Let me just not think about that right now.

And it's accumulating.

KJ: [00:09:24] I think though, taking the five minutes that it took us or so to go through that exercise of symbol and quick reaction to a single single word is very telling and it's a really good start. The fact that you sat there and  you were like, Oh my gosh, I recognize, I recognize the symbol and I hadn't made that connection before.

And just you saying, Oh my gosh, my signature on this is actually my agitation signature versus my signature over here is my graceful and my flowing joyful [00:10:00] signature. You taking the time to at least identify it and hold that space. That's key in my opinion, is to stop and identify and see what's going on in yourself.

Not that you have to understand it or have an answer for it, but just that you have it, that you're

experiencing it.

Fawn: [00:10:17] That's all you need is just to ask that, like, I wouldn't know what the heck is going on. I want to figure it out.

KJ: [00:10:24] It's a good start because those that are running around rampant and not asking, what do I need right now?

Or what am I doing right now? Those are the ones I'm most worried about.

Wait, say that again.

 The ones that are not asking and doing, doing the,

Fawn: [00:10:39] um,

KJ: [00:10:42] the research. Yeah. Asking the tough questions or pausing enough to say, Hey, look at my signature or, Hey, look, look at my initial reaction to this one word. I'm worried about the ones that aren't pausing you paused today.

And I know it did throw you into a place, [00:11:00] but you just asking did cause a pause.

If that makes sense.

Fawn: [00:11:05] That totally makes sense. And it takes me to  what I have said for years. And I don't know, I don't remember who told me this, but they said be on the lookout in society when you feel and you see, no art is being created when there's no art. When there's no expression, you need to be very scared because something is very terribly wrong when art is not produced in society and

KJ: [00:11:36] where it's all being kept inside or it's, it's, it's all being repressed.

Fawn: [00:11:39] Yeah.

Yeah. Because you don't feel safe enough.

Like I say this about, um, just for my, as myself and what I've noticed as being an immigrant is that usually  the immigrants have no luxury of space or a time to be free-flowing. They are in survival mode. That's why, [00:12:00] when their kids are being raised in this new culture, they want their kids to do X, Y, and Z to make sure that they survive in this culture,i.e. become a doctor, become a lawyer, become an engineer. Boom. And that's how you survive. There's no luxury of space or a time to pursue the arts because they're in survival mode. And I feel like society when they're in a state of survival, it's a bad situation because  we're not sharing, we're not expressing, we're not allowing for compassion. We're not allowing the creativity. There is no emotion. It's all locked up

 Paul: [00:12:37] till some, till everyone just blows up at the same time.

Fawn: [00:12:40] Yeah. Until there was an explosion. And  by the time something is released, it's like a volcano and it could be quite disruptive. And I feel like is that what's happening around the world right now? Is that the virus? Is everything we're going through, I mean, from the earth to people's emotions, to [00:13:00] viruses, is it an explosion and eruption of everything that was never really seen expressed?

Paul: [00:13:07] It's interesting as well. Cause you know, like, um, everything normally comes in waves doesn't it? That's like the thought the idea of like the old mythology of yin and yang, the understanding of it and like the waves of yin and yang and explosions in theory with that, you know, they're, they're, they're meant to happen.

, which, I mean, for me having that outlook upon life makes me also accept the bad things that they're meant to happen. Sort of thing and it's, and it's out of my control and it's all part of the beautiful dance of life and the beautiful picture of this already painted sort of thing. And I'm just like watching it unfold and not letting that affect my emotions and knowing that it's meant to happen.

And also like, you know, life  is a beautiful creation and it wouldn't exist if it didn't have  the [00:14:00] explosiveness and the sadness and the darkness sort of thing. So in turn that darkness has its own beauty, even though its darkness and its sadness.  But just like looking at it like that really helps me not take it on board too much.

You know,

Fawn: [00:14:17] Paul, I love that. That's like, that's how I try to be with our children.  If they have dark emotions, if they have anger, if they have fear, Matt and I always make sure to let that be okay. But I see how you see that for the world. You treat the world like the world is your child. And so any eruption or explosion or strife that is happening, you are just allowing it for it to happen because it's a natural process.

It needs to be expressed

Paul: [00:14:48] like a child. Yeah.

Fawn: [00:14:49] I never thought about it like that. Paul.

Paul: [00:14:52] I never thought about it. I thinking I'm seeing it as a child. That's interesting.

Fawn: [00:14:57] You play. You're just like, as a parent, you're just allowing it to happen [00:15:00] instead of trying to control it and say, no volcano, don't explode.

You know, let's not talk about this. You guys, let's not talk about politics. Let's not do that.

Matt: [00:15:11] Right. Which in turn starts to invalidate those emotions. I mean, just because you have negative emotions, doesn't, you know, you should express them because if you don't, you end up with a, what is it? Um, What is it?

The Tibetan monks app. Oh, diabetes, you end up with diabetes. If you repress all your negative emotions too much.

Fawn: [00:15:32] This comes from Dr. Martinez, who I studied. I love this person so much. He, he studied, he followed around Tibetan monks and he's obviously a doctor and he realized that the population around the world that has the highest case of diabetes are Tibetan monks.

And it's because, yeah. Oh Katy yeah. Um, it's because, Oh, let's see. I don't know if

Matt: [00:15:56] he believes it's because

Fawn: [00:15:58] no, he researched it. They [00:16:00] all researched it. So I, and I don't have my notes in front of me, so I don't have the like specifics of like the particular part of the body that creates insulin and like how all that works.

I have it all written down, but basically what, what happens is that when you see an injustice in the world. When you see, for example, like with the Tibetan monks, your brothers and sisters killed right in front of you. When you see such injustice, you see that and you go straight immediately to love and compassion, no matter what, you're not allowing yourself to feel the rage.

When you go straight to love and compassion meditation, it disrupts some, it, it disrupts your body and your body knows that is total BS. Right? And so the, it involves the, um, it, [00:17:00] uh, I have it all written down. I don't know. I don't want to say, cause I don't want to get it wrong, but basically it creates diabetes, insulin, and it, that all gets affected.

Paul: [00:17:11] I'm

kind of guessing because maybe because, cause your body, like you said, is classing it as BS, so it can create body stress, which then fatigues the adrenal glands and  screws up  your pancreas and your liver. Um, cause it puts like byproducts or like adrenalin and stuff and adrenalinis quite corrosive if it's all worked out and honest, which in turn, yeah, it gives you, um, if you've got a slacking liver and pancreas, then your insulin isn't, um, coming out as much.

And also, um, it's working harder to break down other stuff like fats and stuff like that. And I mean, Indians eat less fat. I feel as well as tasks got to have some kind of part to it.

Fawn: [00:17:56] Usually when you think of diabetes, you think, Oh, it's the overweight [00:18:00] people who have lots of donuts and French fries, but these are the Tibetan monks who were usually vegan vegetarian for sure.

You know? Um, so it's just, it's interesting. Maybe, you know, what I'll do is I'll find my notes and I'll put it in the show notes about Dr. Martinez.

Matt: [00:18:18] But I think what it's saying is that you need to express the range. You need to express the range in your, in art. Society needs to express the entire range in its art and its music and its science and it's everything. And as well as us as individuals.

Fawn: [00:18:35] I have a question. What do you think the guiding emotions of our society are? Like, what if you could put into one or two words, like how  KJ had all these words, like fear, happiness, longing, yearning, disgust, tense, joy, graceful, solemn, agitated, powerful, cool. What word do you think best describes what the heck is going on in the world? [00:19:00] I think it's fear.

Matt: [00:19:02] Um, and that's a good one. I think it's separation, not loneliness. Cause loneliest has a component, but separation

Fawn: [00:19:10] Is that an emotion?

Matt: [00:19:10] An emotion and, I'm going with it as an emotion. It's just, it's again, it's a very nuancey word.

You know, I think that politically, certainly in America, there's a separation. I think there's a physical separation. And I think emotionally we're separated as well.

Fawn: [00:19:27] And spiritually, the whole thing of you feel separate from a source, whatever source you want to call it, feeling that you're completely away from that.

Yeah, that's a good one, honey.

Paul: [00:19:38] Yeah, I think they're related as well. Like the fear creates the separateness sort of thing. For me, it would be also frustration would be my word and, you know, frustration of how people are putting, how people are having fear put on 'em, um, to create a separateness. I mean, [00:20:00] I think it's been, you know, on purpose, it's frustrating and people don't know the truth is line isn't it?

Matt: [00:20:06] It's right in there.

Absolutely.

Fawn: [00:20:09] Yeah. And a lot of people aren't feeling heard. A lot of people aren't feeling seen. These are really linked.

Beth: [00:20:15] I think people are like the, it's not an emotion, but tired. I think people are just feel like they're on this merry-go-round. Like, when is this going to end? When can I jump off?  When will there be normality and what will that look like? That uncertainty.

Katy: [00:20:30] To expound on that, I think it's also fear of what's going to happen in the future. What is it going to be like? Yeah. Like when is this going to be like, when is this going to end?

And then what's going to happen? Am I going to get back to my job? Am I going to be able to go on vacation? Am I going to stay healthy? So it's fear of the unknown basically for the future.

KJ: [00:20:55] Mine is a synonym kind of encompassing all of the words already mentioned [00:21:00] and very similar to Matt's, which is, disconnect and I see it as a verb, as well as a noun. There is an intention around actually deciding not to connect. And our group is called connected, which shows you how we're trying to instill some balance in that.

And then there's also the noun. There's just this idea of a disconnect. There is a separation there's like I, I spoke about today. There's a disconnect from our mind to our body. How do we connect that up again?  How do we see that they're related? Meaning, we are being compassionate when we give space for creativity and idea and, um, something that's outside of the structure. But there needs to be like this bridge. And so my idea is that it it's it's within us. It is within our physical Soma. And if we start with how we are compassionate and feeling in the moment in our [00:22:00] bodies, in our present moment, that can help us connect and reach out to see how someone else might be experiencing the same moment, maybe a different reaction.

But we are in this moment together, we are having a reaction for sure.

Matt: [00:22:15] See, but where everyone else, I mean,  it feels just so very negative. My word separation has negative connotations, but all the connotations aren't necessarily negative. I love the fact that I have a separation with my family that we're able to be together all day, every day.

 I read an article just this week that was talking about how dogs, dogs. This is like, The greatest time ever for people's pet dogs. And they're worried about what's going to happen when things go back to normal, whatever that means because the dogs are loving it. You know, I think that there's, [00:23:00] there's there there's a lot of good inside of separation.

There's a heck of a lot of negativity, but it depends on how you frame it. And it depends on how you go forward with it.

KJ: [00:23:09] Agreed 100%.

 Beth: [00:23:11] I agree as well. I think I said the word tired, and that is negative. But I think with my positive lens on, I don't feel like, uh, we've talked  a lot about negative emotions that are unexpressed in terms of creativity.

And I think. I don't feel like I'm going to explode. I feel quite content and happy even though the world is kind of crazy right now. But I do wonder I am not as creative. I am. I feel like I'm a creative person, but I don't feel like I'm giving myself space to be creative on a day to day basis. And I do wonder what am I denying myself and others and what more joy more happiness could have if I just did that.

So I think not just looking at  negatively as we need to be creative, to deal with emotions, I think we should be creative [00:24:00] just generally, because that could create so much more blessings.

Fawn: [00:24:05] That's why we homeschool honestly, is to keep that intact because, um, thank God we became parents because I really saw firsthand how babies, children come in with everything completely intact. They know everything. They are the ambassadors of love, the ambassadors of truth and expression. They know everything.  I would just look at them and there would be like a telepathic thing that would get transferred to me. Like, Oh my God, I forgot.

This is what it is. And it has everything to do with the creativity and the connection these children know. And as we get older, I don't know what happens. I used to blame schools, but I think it's even deeper than that. What happens. We get so calloused.  We [00:25:00] start doubting our source and doubting ourselves and even not realizing or remembering who we are, which is another question that KJ brought up today that I thought I would be okay with.

But it's thoroughly messed with me.  It was when do you feel most like yourself in the past month?  In the past three months? Where were you?  You can probably help me with the questions that you asked, because I don't remember KJ, word for word, exactly how you pose the question.

KJ: [00:25:30] No, you're doing really good.  I was asking, can you recall when you felt most aligned and most like you yourself, and if so, where were you? What were the sensations around you who was with you? And then I just moved through painting a picture or creating a vessel or a space for you to find yourself there again, but in the present moment.

So I moved to this through the senses. What do you smell? What [00:26:00] do you hear? What are you doing? What is your body physically doing in that moment? To remind that we can access this information right now, if we just pause and ask the question.

Fawn: [00:26:11] So, and then you got deeper and you talked about the parameters of time.

 What did we do when we had no parameters of time? When there were no instructions on anything other than go do it? And what would you do if you were told, go do it, go do something, anything you want and what would you do if you're not worried about a schedule or anything, not worried about time, what would you do as a child?

And that stumped me right there, again. I thought I'd be okay with that question, but I, I don't know what happened. I don't know if it was because we had our kids doing this session too. And I was like curious what they were writing, but then I didn't want to. I didn't want to spy [00:27:00] on their notebooks. And then I started panicking because I did peek over and I saw some words that frightened me.

I'm like, Oh my God, why is she feeling this way? What happened? And you know, I wanted to take care of her. I'm like, Oh, are you feeling this? Or, I didn't know the context of the word, you know, like, I don't know why she wrote that word, what she was referring to. I just, one word just popped out, but  I couldn't even, and then I'm like, okay, just focus on yourself.

Cause I had just told one of my kids, Hey, focus on your own work because they were copying each other and I'm like, okay, I should take my own advice. Okay. I'm just going to focus on myself. I'm like, I don't even know. Like I don't. How do you, what's the definition? Like when you asked,  who are you? I'm like, um, I wish I could have asked, but I was, I couldn't reach the computer to  type into the chat. But when I wanted to ask you, KJ, was what does feeling like you mean. Like, I don't even know what that, what does that mean? [00:28:00] What does it mean to feel like you, like, could you define it?  Because I was thinking, well, is the me how I show up every day?

Is that me? Is that, is it the me that I feel like I haven't achieved yet? Is that me? Is, is the me the one that came before I was born? Is that me? Which me, what is the, you, can you explain that KJ? Like, can we get into that? Well, am I making sense to me? What is the you, what does that mean? What, what does it mean to feel like you

Matt: [00:28:33] or what does it mean.

I mean that's, I think that's a very fair question. I'm going to steal KJ's thunder for a second, but like when I go to work, it's literally like me putting on an outfit and playing a role. I am play the role of the technologist and I play the role of the good teammate. And I play the role of the curious and I play.

I play all of these roles, but I'm not really a hundred percent me. [00:29:00] I am the me  that's going to make them feel comfortable. Right. The times I am me are generally pretty solitary, to be honest, I'm generally by myself and I'm enjoying and I'm experiencing and I'm just being, and that's when I feel uniquely me.

Because I think everyone else has so puts so much on you as far as the things that they need from you and the things that,  you need from them and how to get them that it's very hard for me  in a non solitary environment, really, to be me.

Fawn: [00:29:34] I feel, I feel like I've gotten, that's why I've gotten fired from almost every job I've had is because I was authentically me.

So like, how do you survive when you're a, you authentically and you can't switch when you can't do the code switching, when you can't, when you're ethnic, like me, you can't just switch and look different. Do you know what I mean? Like it just, [00:30:00] so anyway, so what does it mean, KJ? Which you were you referring to?

KJ: [00:30:06] So there's one way that you can help identify or at least get a little closer to it, which is,  compare yourself when you are most tense, most anxious, most uncomfortable. And I know that sounds really odd, but to actually in the same way of like muscle tightening and muscle progression, like if I ask you to tense and squish your shoulders up to your ears for two to three seconds, and then relax for two, three seconds, the relaxed ease, that is the natural.

So when you go in an extreme and you're one way specifically, and then you release out of it and relax out of it, that is where you're resting place is. That, I'm willing to wager is closer to your natural YOU-NESS. Then this, but a lot of times we don't notice it [00:31:00] until someone asks us, Hey, why are your shoulders up in your ears?

Oh, Oh. And so I wanted to say that Fawn, a, part of the real you is to be Fawn, the mother. So what you were doing in the session where you were watching and making sure your kids were okay, that is definitely a You-ness. That is a Fawn-ness 

Fawn: [00:31:19] I worry about everybody. Okay.

KJ: [00:31:22] Yeah. Or you care and you want to make sure people are comfortable and, well,

Fawn: [00:31:27] thanks KJ.

That helps.

Paul: [00:31:31] Yeah. Caring's a nicer word for that. Definitely.

Fawn: [00:31:35] And then like, so can we, do you guys want to express who your real yous are now that you kind of did it Matt right? What is the real humanity. You're a crazy ever. No, you're, you're a, you're a samurai Viking, heavy metal.

Matt: [00:31:52] There's so many roles there.

And who am I? I see. I would get lost in all of that. That's [00:32:00] that's way too much confetti being thrown up in the air. I can't see through it. I mean, I know, but can I express, not so much.

Paul: [00:32:08] I see.

Fawn: [00:32:09] Oh

man, Matt just made a gesture that gesture where you point your index finger and your middle finger to your eyes and then point it to the other person.

Paul: [00:32:23] It went straight to my heart,

Fawn: [00:32:27] but like Beth, people think she's like this quiet person, but when you talk to Beth, you're like, Oh wow, like we've had the best conversations.

Beth: [00:32:40] Yeah,

I'm listening. If I'm not talking, I'm listening.

Fawn: [00:32:43] You're like way out there. I love it. I love talking to you so much.

Beth: [00:32:49] Thank you both. I love talking to you too.

I think the same as what Matt said when I'm in solitude, like when I'm meditating or when I'm in that gap between my [00:33:00] thoughts, that is to me, who I am, but kind of label that, you know, even when you get to that space, when you're really in the, now, I'm not sure I can define with words what that is apart from source or energy or I don't know.

 That's when I feel like me, because I'm still, I'm just being. I'm not labeling myself. I'm not my body. I'm not my career. I'm not my job. I'm, I'm not. Any of these are the things that we label ourselves or other people label us. I think it's when I'm quiet.

Fawn: [00:33:36] It's very interesting though, because you're very metaphysical and that's the perfect description of there's no space, no time, no thing, no one it's in that empty space where it all exists.

Like the way you just described yourself is all of all universes.

Beth: [00:33:54] Yeah.

Fawn: [00:33:55] Everything.

When I look at Katy like, okay, so Katy is [00:34:00] our neighbor pretty much. Um, we've actually hung out in person. And so when I look at Katy, who she is, to me is open armed. When you're looking at Katy's face her eyes, emanate this, open, ready to help you, ready to hold you knowing with true wisdom, what you need. That's Katie, but I'm curious how you see yourself.

Katy: [00:34:27] Oh, that's really hard also because when I first thought of it, you know, it's like, okay, I'm a mother, a wife, a grandmother, and then, but I'm so much other than that. And other times when you're by yourself, when I'm out walking, when I'm in the garden, I think that's like this morning I was out planting some arugula seeds and it just took me no time at all, but I felt so happy.

And I felt like that's when I myself is when I'm happy doing things that, make me feel [00:35:00] happy and at peace and relaxed. So I think maybe that's it. It's, it's a hard thing to pinpoint because there's so many different times  when I'm myself in different situations,

Fawn: [00:35:14] That... It's perfect. I love all these answers.

And now I don't feel so strange because I really couldn't answer that question when it was posed in our session with KJ. I couldn't do it, but KJ, pray tell about you. Um,

KJ: [00:35:29] well, when we met earlier today, I, I really felt that the way and how Paul plays his music, I, I started playing a little piano and that's just to let you know where I was in the moment.

And then Paul joined me and it was lovely. And, and then I sort of receded into the background and Paul continued to share what was present for him in the form of music. [00:36:00] And I honestly felt like that described me being truly me when I am surrounded by sound and near the water. You'd mentioned this to Fawn and in our session earlier  that you need to be near the water, or when you were a kid, at least you were near water.

And I remember that about you. We both have a great love for the ocean. And so I certainly can say that when I am near the ocean and it's a moving body of water lakes, they're nice too. But my water to me feels most comforting when it's in movement. And so I can best describe it as when I am in those elements or within those elements, music sound and moving water.

And what am I doing in those moments? I'm usually very still. So I feel most like myself when I'm still and surrounded by soothing fluid water.

Fawn: [00:36:58] It's  so great [00:37:00] to hear everyone else's explanations because I feel better because when you pose that question in the session, I saw everyone making these beautiful gestures and dancing.

I'm like, well, I don't feel like that is something wrong with me. Like, I don't want to move because in my, in my happy place, in my, you know, being myself, I'm like completely still, like, I don't want to move like that. And then I feel like, Oh man, I have to go to the gym. Like, I don't

Matt: [00:37:31] know what I mean, do I have to go to the gym to be in my happy place?

Really? Yeah.

Fawn: [00:37:35] Well, because I saw everybody else moving and using their bodies. I'm like, okay. I don't want to really do that. And I felt wrong. I was like, I'm so wrong. I haven't just wrong all the time. This horrible. I suck. Um, but in hearing all of your answers, I'm like, Oh, me too. Okay. So that's okay. [00:38:00] I'm okay.

I'm

okay.

Matt: [00:38:01] So wait a second. So to psychoanalyze you, so the only way you can be okay with you is when you're part of a group.

Fawn: [00:38:12] I don't know. I don't know.

Matt: [00:38:14] Woof.

Fawn: [00:38:14] No, that's not what I said though.

Beth: [00:38:17] It's because, we're all one, Matt!,

Matt: [00:38:20] no, no, no, no. And I agree with that, actually. It's a whole other story we could get. Nevermind. We can't get to.

Fawn: [00:38:25] What are you trying to get at?

Matt: [00:38:26] I d did did..I don't know?

Fawn: [00:38:28] Are you trying to pick a fight with me?

Matt: [00:38:29] Me??

Fawn: [00:38:29] No, I seriously don't know what you're getting at.

Matt: [00:38:34] Oh, it's just a part of, I think the core of me being me is kind of not giving a hoot what anybody else thinks about.

Fawn: [00:38:44] Here's the thing when you've been fired from most of the jobs you've had, when you can't make it in your career to the level you have sought after for your entire life like me, you start asking those questions and you start thinking, well, I [00:39:00] must be such an odd ball.

I am so always the one odd person out, you know, I'm always the other, I'm the one who falls in the cracks. So yeah, best believe when I hear someone else is feeling like me, for once in my life, I can be like, Oh, so I'm not so separated is what I'm trying to say. Does that come across? Or am I sounding like, I just want to just be people pleasing, whatever you are.

It is what, what it is you're insinuating.

Matt: [00:39:32] I'm just going to sit here and smirk at you, darlin.

Fawn: [00:39:34] Why are -you doing, why are you so mean to me today? What is your problem?

Matt: [00:39:38] I'll be quiet now.

Fawn: [00:39:39] No, I hate it. When he gets quiet. It makes me nuts. That's just makes me crazy.

Paul: [00:39:48] Yeah. Relating. Relating is good. Relating is great.

Isn't it? Um, you know, it's the same of like sympathetic striking. How many from [00:40:00] Matt

Fawn: [00:40:02] slowly

Paul: [00:40:03] with my addiction. Yeah. So the best person to relate to me that got me out of my addiction was talking to another addict. And relating to people in the same mind, ways relate is beautiful. And I also like, you know, so that that's beautiful too for healing and stuff. And I think, how everyone was talking about, Matt said the word source.

Yeah. And then Katy was on about like peace and stuff like that. And when I connect to my source, I find that peace. And it's in the stillness that everyone else is talking about and stuff like this. Um, and, uh, mine for my birthday, so every other birthday I've ever had part from the ones if I got sober, I would always get as, as, uh, messy as I could, you know, and then this year we were in England and then it was in the middle of December, it was freezing cold.

And then me and my mates, we went to the pub. They, um, were all [00:41:00] sober. Which is bonkers to think of in England. Um, and they, you know, we had a lovely little meal with a cake that came out and then we went swimming in the ocean, um, you know, in the middle of December. And it's like, it's just like a celebration of life, you know?

And then when you're out there, you're, I wasn't thinking about anything and I was connecting to that source or my higher power or whatever you want to call it, the universe sort of thing. And in that stillness, and just in that moment, that moment of peace, which the beautiful thing about  meditation is, um, is, you know, that those moments where we lose all the attachment of the earth and we go back to that source and to that piece is so impossible to find on apart from such rare occasions on this earth, um, through meditation,  you can sustain that and prolong it and go into it even deeper. That's the beautiful thing about meditation is really healing and stuff. [00:42:00] Anyway. Um, I can't remember. Well, I stemmed from, but yeah, There you go.

KJ: [00:42:07] The relational piece is I think, where you started Paul  and I agree with that there.  Some of the shares today without  giving a way, any privacy, a lot of what you're just reflecting right now, Fawn and Matt in that, I feel most like myself when I'm with my tribe.

I feel most like myself when I'm interacting one, one gal even share that she feels most like herself when she is having conversations on the couch with a friend, or I feel most like myself when I am having human, physical contact. So how important are hugs and tactile touching right now? Especially right now.

 I feel that I can relate to that as well. This to me feels like home. Having conversations with good people who want to be curious and explore and,   receive and [00:43:00] be reciprocal and give. That to me, I feel very much so like myself right now,

Fawn: [00:43:06] there was one moment during our session when one woman was saying, and she started crying, talking about her happy place, was hugging people.

And that she hasn't had that because of what we've all been going through. And I looked at, I mean, it, it, I started crying and then I really made sure that I was conscious enough to look at everyone on the screen. And everyone was a little dewy eyed. Everyone was, we all, like, there was such a connection like immediately everyone was relating to that, even though most of us didn't say anything like that.

And that brought us all - . Like I felt like, Oh my God, in this precise moment, everyone is connected. Why is that? Is it because of what she's saying is, is it because she cried and that [00:44:00] was an open gate to connection? I don't know what happened, KJ. Like you saw it too, right? Paul, like everybody, like everybody connected, like we were all one thing.

Paul: [00:44:14] Yeah. It's a lovely thing about what you're saying. It's like opening the Gates being vulnerable, um, was like, I mean, for me, especially being quite, you know, British, we, we find it very hard to be vulnerable.  And my parents, they, you know, they'd been put up to not be vulnerable and stuff like this. So obviously when I suppressed that in, you know, this is why I love romantic films, yeah. Because I like a good cry when I watch a little romantic film.  It's my excuse to let it out. And when someone opens the gate, like you're on, about being vulnerable, everyone else is just like, they get to be vulnerable themselves. And also, you know, there's empathy, which is a beautiful thing. Empathy.

 [00:45:00] Fawn: [00:44:55] That's perfect. So, okay. Um, moving it to, the next thing I wanted to talk about is two things. Quickly let's share happy places. And in sharing, you know, whoever is listening that may not be feeling it it's a good inspiration, like when I can't figure out where to go or what to do when I'm like just perplexed, it helps to know what people like to do and what people have seen out there that gives me inspiration to  find my own thing. So can I ask what your happy place is? I don't even know if I have one. Actually it's the bathroom.

Matt: [00:45:48] Oh dear. I figured it out. I just,

KJ: [00:45:52] I follow you. I get that.

Fawn: [00:45:54] I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's the, the base chakra that's open. [00:46:00] I don't know if it's the water, but I, I talk about this on our podcast all the time that I get messages from the universe when I'm in the bathroom. It's a shower in the shower. In the bathroom. 

Katy: [00:46:13] I do, in the shower..

Fawn: [00:46:14] Right. Because I think it's the water.

And having said that I'm with KJ all the way. You know, I used to live in Minnesota on the border of, uh, Minnesota and Wisconsin actually. And I was a fish out of water. I w I came from, uh, I'm a beach girl and here I am in Minnesota. And yeah. I mean, everything was very bizarre to me. It was another planet.

And when people are like, okay, what do you need? I'm like, I need the ocean. And, and so people were like, well, we have so many lakes. We have like 10,000 lakes. For those of you in the UK, Minnesota is known for the land of 10,000 lakes. No, that's not going to do, I don't want a [00:47:00] Lake. I need the ocean. I need the movement.

I need the roaring sound of the mother, you know, the ocean. And they're like, no, just go to the Lake. I'm like, no, like in Colorado, people keep telling me to go to the mountains. I'm like we are in the mountains and I'm terrified of the mountains. I don't know what's lurking behind there. Behind those bushes.

There are Bobcat and bears and mouse. No thanks. No, I don't know. So, um, I, it was to the point where when I did sleep, I would have dreams of the dolphins from the Pacific ocean diving into the ocean. And somehow through beneath the continent coming out of these tiny little lakes in Minnesota to say hi to me, and I would feel so sad.

Um, but. So my happy place is the ocean, you know, go figure here we are in Colorado. I'm like, I feel like I'm holding my [00:48:00] breath until we get back to some water God's sake. So anyway, um, that's my happy place. That, and also my love Matt and the girls and my friends, you guys, my happy place. Am I, is this a rerun?

Did you all already say your happy places?

All right.

Matt: [00:48:20] No, no, no, not at all. When I was in college, I actually had a spot and I called it my happy place. I'm not even kidding. Um, so I would school in Santa Cruz, California, where the redwoods meet the surf and the whole back end of campus is just Redwood trees and foresty.

And it's all very, and I had a special spot in a ravine. I had a seat, it was green. It was lovely. Smelled. Good felt good. And that's, that was, I called it my happy place.

Fawn: [00:48:53] Okay. Okay. Okay. I have a lot of happy places in Seattle. My happy place was the [00:49:00] troll. You guys, if you ever go to Seattle, you go to Fremont, you cross the bridge.

There are lots of bridges because there are so many bodies of water and there is one bridge in Fremont and it was Fremont. Right? We've moved so many times that. I sometimes lose track and I'll mistake. I'll put one name to a place that didn't have that name. So it was in Fremont, but  there's a, they called the troll, but it's a cyclop.

And from the ground to the, to the top where the, the freeway overpass is, the bridge is just the head of the Cyclop. He has one eye and he has this hand that's coming out. He looks quite menacing, but that troll was my happy place. One of my happy places in Seattle, I would go there around midnight after midnight and just sit there and just cry to the troll because I was looking for my true love.

Like where is he, buddy? [00:50:00] I'm all alone, over here. Happy place. Okay. Next who's next happy place.

 KJ: [00:50:06] I just wanted to make an observation that Fawn you have so many you places

Fawn: [00:50:16] when

KJ: [00:50:17] you weren't sure where and who you are. I was just like, I just heard about seven.

Fawn: [00:50:21] Really? This is why I need therapy.

KJ: [00:50:27] I'm just observing as you spoke about each of them. So I think you do have quite a few, you places my love.

Fawn: [00:50:36] Thanks for saying that, because I feel like such an odd ball that doesn't belong on the planet.

So you saying that is a total healing for me. Thanks, KJ.

KJ: [00:50:44] You're welcome.

Katy: [00:50:45] Well, I'll go. Um, my happy place is the mountains. I love driving up in the mountains to look at the beautiful trees growing in the side of the rocks, which is amazing how they can do that. [00:51:00] And, um, you know, going up to, um, Fawn, you a die. If you ever drove on trail Ridge road, it's the highest road I think in the United States or it's just outstandingly beautiful. And if you look over the side, you, you could drop down thousands of feet. It's just so scary, but it's so awesome and beautiful. And then, um, like last fall in front and I went up there and we got out and we looked at the trees changing and the air was so crisp and clean and  noticeably different than what it is here.

And it just felt so clean and vibrant and beautiful, and you just couldn't breathe enough of it in. And the trees were just gorgeous and, there's just so much about it. It's and when I was an urban school, we used to go up all the time, identifying herbs and, in the woods and holding plants and digging up OSHA and.

[00:52:00] And it's just, it's just really fun and, and it's not scary cause I didn't see any bears and any wild cats or anything like that around.  So, don't be afraid to go cause it's really cool. And then the other happy place too, I'll have to agree with you. It's the ocean. I've been to the ocean many, many, many times, and I just feel, I love swimming in it.

And when we're younger, we got to go snorkeling in the Virgin islands. And that was the most fascinating thing. When you were a 10 year old kid learning how to snorkel and see fish that are colors of the rainbow and you could almost touch them. It was just awesome. So I totally agree with you guys on the ocean.

It is not like the lakes. I've lived on a Lake in Wisconsin for a number of years and it's fun, but it's boring. There's no really there's no sound. There's no fury. There's no, there's sure the wind whips it up and stuff, but there's no, [00:53:00] there's no life. There's no action. A Lake is very Placid and then the wind will blow it, but that's about it.

So there's no like there's no like energy from the earth there. It's just kind of there. So, um, that's, that's definitely what lakes are. They're, they're kind of boring. They can do fun fishing and swimming and skiing and stuff, but that's about it.

Fawn: [00:53:26] The first time I went snorkeling,  I put on the goggles and I put my head under water.

So first of all, before I put my  head underwater, without the goggles, I was looking around and I was in the ocean. Everything was very peaceful. There was not much wind it was really sunny. It seemed very quiet. There was no one around. And then I put the goggles on and then I went underwater and I screamed underwater because I had no idea.

[00:54:00] All these creatures were all around me within centimeters, all these fish. I was like, what? The, I could not believe the party that was underneath. Absolutely. It's crazy.

You know, and the lakes are weird

Katy: [00:54:19] and then it can get scary as to when you see stingrays and barracudas, it's like, okay, I'm

turning around, but you

learn how to respect, give them space to

It's an amazing world down there.

It really is. I mean, but see that stuff doesn't scare me, but the rattle, the whatever's in the mountains.

That I can't see or can't see. No, thank you. No. Okay. But Katy, I would love to go up with you because I, I need an expert to tell me what is going on. You know, we took some classes with some Rangers when we moved to Colorado and I, I gotta say they scared me even more. [00:55:00] Like we went hiking, we went to the tippy tippy top of somewhere.

And then she was like, that's the continental divide. I'm like, Oh, it's a real thing. Like, I didn't think about it. The continental divide , because at precisely, it's usually around noon. Isn't it, Katy? How the weather changes all of a sudden. And we have the lightning bolts and the, the rain it's yeah.

In the

summer of the storms come in in the afternoon. Yeah. And you have to be careful if you want to go hiking certain areas, you have to go early in the morning. Um, because then the storms come in and then the lightning and you don't want to be out in the middle of a meadow in the storm,

Fawn: [00:55:39] right? It's like all of a sudden night and day at noon, precisely you have to, if you're hiking, you need to be down.

But that's when , she taught us. She taught us so much, but one of the things that terrified me even more was she was talking about, have you all heard where the term out of the blue comes from? Do you guys know where the [00:56:00] term out of the blue comes from? So we're standing on this cliff and she's pointing or looking at the divide, the continental divide.

And it was a bright, sunny day, very hot. And all of a sudden we could see a layer of clouds coming over the divide. And she said, okay, when we look up in the sky right now, it's all blue. Right. But this is precisely the moment we would get hit by lightning. Oh my what. We, we better get outta here. Like why is she still talking?

Like, can we go? I was seriously panicking and she's like, out of the blue, the term out of the blue is you see those they're miles away, but those clouds can suddenly strike us with, with lightning or the lightning bolt where we stand right here. I'm like right here. Right? I'm like, man, get the keys. Let's get outta here.

God. Why is she still talking anyway? So that's where the term out of the blue comes from because [00:57:00] it's lightning from out of the blue it's from those clouds far away. Anyway, I digress Beth, where where's your happy place?

Beth: [00:57:09] My happy place.

One of them is the library, uh, which might sound really silly, but uh,

Fawn: [00:57:18] just Nope.

Yeah, everybody's agreeing it's not silly

Beth: [00:57:23] quietness. And sometimes I would go and work late, like as business owners that don't always necessarily think, go work in the library. But I used to go because I knew it would be quiet. I knew there would be a table and a plugin somewhere I could put myself in and I will be surrounded by books or art. Some of the libraries would have like art galleries upstairs and things. So that is one of my happy places.  The other would be just like at home watching reruns of Colombo on a Sunday. That's my guilty pleasure. I love, I love Colombo. Um, [00:58:00] and it's always on when I need it to be on, you know, when you just want to chill out and you just sit down and you flick through the channels and Colombo is always on while he's in the UK., Anyway. I used to watch it as a child, like insane, like. Six year old child watching Colombo, but I just love it so much.

Fawn: [00:58:18] He's a fascinating character you want, sorry. I'm sorry. I interrupted. He's a fascinating character. I used to hate Colombo until someone said, cause I said he's so annoying. And someone said, that's precisely why he's so good at his job.

Katy: [00:58:31] EXACTLY!.

Beth: [00:58:32] No, I think I learnt a lot about psychology or human interaction from Colombo.

Katy: [00:58:37] YES! 

Beth: [00:58:38] I learned about and actually the way that he pretends not to understand something. I think I learned a lot about that. I think that told me how to interact with people.

Fawn: [00:58:51] Have you guys ever seen the movie Colombo is in?? It was in the eighties.

I think it's called the "Wings  of Desire". Has anyone [00:59:00] seen that? It's one of my favorite movies. "Wings of Desire." Please see it. It's my inspiration for so many things I've done is that movie. But Colombo's in it too. He makes, he makes a, uh, an appearance and it's perfect. Anyway, wings of desire,

Beth: [00:59:21] I should look that up

Fawn: [00:59:22] yeah it's really good.

It's about these angels that are watching over humanity and they can, they can hear people's thoughts. And, and guess what, Beth, these angels mostly hang out at the library.

Beth: [00:59:38] No way!

Fawn: [00:59:41] They hear people's thoughts. Then they go down and  they put their hand on the person's shoulder. And so this person is having like a stream of consciousness that is negative.

And when the Angel's hand gets put on their shoulder and they don't know this is happening, but all of a sudden their [01:00:00] thoughts, their words start changing for the better. And then all of a sudden they're on the right path again. And then. Then the angel takes their hand up. They're good. The person's good to go.

And it's a love story. It's an, it's about an angel who falls in love with a human being.

Paul: [01:00:18] Oh, I think I've seen that. Is that, um, what Nicholas cage in it?

Fawn: [01:00:23] Oh my God. Um,

KJ: [01:00:25] yeah, that's "City of Angels".

Paul: [01:00:27] That's the one. Yeah.

' You're an angel and I'm a  human

Fawn: [01:00:30] angels in humans. And this is all in German and it takes place in Berlin and the wall is still up and it's just, it's, it's beautiful.

It's dark and beautiful. It's gorgeous. The cinematography's beautiful. It's just, the music is beautiful. It's one of those movies I love, but I can't really watch that much. Like another one of my favorite movies is "Cinema Paradiso". One note from the very [01:01:00] beginning and I'm just, I can't all the tears I have.

I'm dried up. I immediately start bawling, crying, but it's one of my favorite movies, but I can't watch it. I can't want it. Especially as a mother now I can't do it.

 Favorite places.

Paul: [01:01:15] Um, so it was a mine. Mine is, I'm quite blessed.  Mine is where I live. So I live in Somerset, which is a County in England and think of like Lord of the rings. Yeah. So you have the Shire in Lord of the rings with all the little hobbits. They smoke their pipeweed and drinking their ale. And they're just like, you know, they have farm festivals where they rate what size pig you have and stuff like that.

So that's what we have here. And instead of drinking their ales they drink cider, and that's why they make ciders and Somerset in England.  They call it the rolling Hills of cider of cider of Somerset um, and, uh, we have, it is a  fascinating fact. So we have [01:02:00] like the most different types of clouds in the world in Somerset. Something like there's like 56 different types and we have 52 or something in England has 58, the most in the world. And ,Somerset has the most in England we get like cloud experts, come live it. I never knew thosecloud experts were panning, and I'm just like, you know, that, that meadow field of the rolling Hills with the beautiful sunsets and sunrises that come with all the clouds and, you know, having barefootedand the comfortability of the community that they're quite like, um, quite homey, like in the Shire  in "Lord of the Rings" and the way people dress is like how they dress in "Lord of the Rings" you know, like the little Hobbit.

It's just like,  it is a place of true, you know, a bit of heaven on earth truly fit for me anyway. Um, so yes, it's my home. That's where my happy place is one of my happy [01:03:00] places

I want to move there. I've always wanted to move there.

Yeah. Come move here.

Fawn: [01:03:06] I tried, I lived there for two years on and off as a student.

Paul: [01:03:10] Yeah. You were you Guildford, which is a couple of hours

away. And

Fawn: [01:03:14] I lived in Guildford and I also lived in Cambridge and I tried desperately to stay, but I'm a rules girl. Like I, I can't break any laws or anything, so I couldn't figure out how to work there and do it legitimately. So here I am.

KJ: [01:03:34] I want to tag onto, I am a big library and bookstore girl as well.

I,

I could, while away hours and hours, days when surrounded by books and the smell, the smell of books.

Fawn: [01:03:51] Matt always wants to go to,  secondhand bookstores, wherever we go, wherever we traveled to there, they, they hold such beautiful information about every [01:04:00] community libraries and bookstores.

For sure. Yeah. Well, to close off the show, I ask one question, what should we hold? What emotions should we hold? Do you think for our world.

Way too big of a question.

Katy: [01:04:18] Geez.

Fawn: [01:04:19] Sorry.

Matt: [01:04:20] Way too big. I'm going to say fun, huh? And I'm not going to explain it.

Fawn: [01:04:25] Okay, good.

We'll make it quick folks. Um, mine is, I always ask questions. I don't really have the answer to myself quite. Hm. What is mine? Um, love

 Katy: [01:04:40] about happiness.

Fawn: [01:04:41] Oh yeah. That's good. Yes, please.

KJ: [01:04:44] Hope.

Katy: [01:04:46] Oh yes.

Beth: [01:04:47] Joy.

You're so adorable.

Paul: [01:04:55] Self truth.

Fawn: [01:04:56] Wow.

[01:05:00] Beautiful. I guess that's it until next week.

That's my, our new drum. You guys what do you think? Did you go? Yeah, you said fun. I'm sorry. See the way we're positioned with those podcasts. Like my back has to be to you because I'm facing the computer. Yes. Stop it. Stop it. He's trying to, what did he do? What was he trying to make those bunny ears?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we would do

Katy: [01:05:30] that all the time in our family. We have many pictures of, of my son going like this to my husband and in pictures. And that's been a big joke in our family also

Fawn: [01:05:40] those bunny ears on the head. Yeah, God, that's what Matt will do that to the girls all the time. Since they were born.

There are baby pictures with those little antennas sticking out. Um, well thank you everyone for being so gracious and kind [01:06:00] with your expressions and your creativity and for listening. And thank you all for listening out there, we will see you next week with our round table. , have a beautiful everyday everybody and stay tuned. Stay tuned. We'll talk to you in a few days.

everyone: [01:06:17] Be well, bye everybody.