How to Heal After a Friendship Breakup Lessons in Emotional Detox and Self-Discovery

Transcript

Fawn: [00:00:00] Welcome back everybody. Hello.

MATT: Hello, everyone.

Fawn: Matt. What is the song? What does it mean? Another one bites the dust In that song queen.

MATT: Yes. Oh careful. I almost started humming it.

Fawn: Yeah What does it mean though? What's he talking about? Because

MATT: does it matter but um, I don't know honestly

Fawn: Well, I want to say another one bites the dust.

Although I probably bit the dust a few months ago Do you guys have um, have you guys had? I mean, we've talked about this before, so I know, yes, you have, but a friend breakup? It feels like you're slimed, and there's this shakiness that comes with it. And when you look out in nature, and you see dogs especially, because we're around dogs mostly, so we notice it there for sure.

I think squirrels do it too, but they can shake it off. [00:01:00] You know, like someone pets them, and then they always shake it off? Well, it depends on who's petting them. They shake it off, I always wondered if that was energetic. Someone a long time ago told me that When people go through trauma or you get scared, right?

Which is trauma also. But when you get scared, that shakiness that comes during or after is your body's way of detoxing. You're like a dog. You're shaking it off.

Speaker 3: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .

Fawn: You're not doing it consciously. That shaky feeling is your body getting rid of it.

MATT: Well, I think it's kind of an uh, Really expressive like stretching cracking the knuckles kind of a thing it I think it satisfies a similar kind of vibe which just basically loosens you back up because you tighten up

Fawn: But you've noticed that right?

Oh, yeah people. I mean you've gone through it too That shaky feeling. Yes It's awful like for me When I've gone through friend breakups, I get that shaky [00:02:00] feeling. First, it's like Disbelief. Like, what just happened? Right?

MATT: Right, of course.

Fawn: And then you go through, all the emotions to justify why it happened.

And then I go through self blame. Then I go through, well, should I try to salvage it? And everybody, most of the time, everybody around me is like, hell no!

MATT: Hay oh

Fawn: um.

MATT: Well, for me, I go through rationalization. Like, no, I'm just, obviously I'm imagining something. And

Fawn: Well, that's me all the time. You, you, that, wait, hold on.

You go through that too? Yes. When you feel like you're imagining it? Yeah. Like what in particular? Well, like

MATT: if I'm trying to get a hold of somebody and they're just not getting a, get a holdable or I have a conversation and then they just drop me like a bad habit. I'm like, oh, well, obviously they're just, you know, it's just a thing and they're probably doing stuff or going through something, but they're gonna get back in touch with me.

I'm, I'm not worried.

Fawn: Yeah, that happened to me, right? [00:03:00] That totally, that's what I was thinking. Okay, but the truth of the matter is that this friend, who's no longer a friend, Um, this friend, all along was doing things that really bothered me, but I thought, oh, it's just me, I gotta work on it myself, I'm not gonna bring it up, I'm not gonna make it an issue.

Now I know that I should have, and So, okay, so what happened was, it was like a culmination of things that were really bothering me. And I never said anything, and I kept going along every time we hung out.

MATT: Right.

Fawn: And, um, but you noticed some things, but you never said anything.

Directly. I

MATT: did. And if you did, I

Fawn: didn't, I wasn't hearing it. Right,

MATT: because I'm not, I'm not here to tell anybody what to do. I want

Fawn: you to tell me what to do, Matt. I want Whoa,

MATT: hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I need this as a soundbite. Oh [00:04:00] my goodness, really?

Fawn: Matt.

MATT: Oh dear, oh dear, dear, dear. No, I need you to,

Fawn: I need you to tell me, because I mean, how many months did I waste?

You know. Well, and and we were

MATT: doing stuff. It wasn't like you were sitting by the phone.

Fawn: Well, no, let me In

MATT: your shawl in the rocker,

Fawn: definitely not. And that's another thing because time just went by. Mm-Hmm. . I've had a lot going for me. And also this friend was like, this voiceover thing is just a, um, what did she call it?

She said, it's a scam. Ah, it's all a scam. Your mentor is scamming you. It's, it's so, such a tough business meanwhile, in the time that, I guess four months, we didn't speak, I was picked up by, a manager and an agent. Thank you. And I've been auditioning for huge commercials every day and still going out and meeting people and I'm doing big things. Anyway, so what happened you guys was we went to the store together as a family I was I [00:05:00] was looking at what was I looking at when it happened? I was like should I get these potatoes or what?

Should I get some onions where the lemons like all this is going in my head and somehow you got my attention It was you right?

MATT: Well, I'm the one who noticed.

Fawn: How did I notice because I thought I thought you guys brought it to my attention Well,

MATT: I think I did. I was like,

Fawn: hey,

MATT: how's it going? Because of course I'm gonna be polite and nice period

Fawn: so you saw her she was trying to squeak by without being noticed. Yes,

MATT: and I noticed her So I called her out

Fawn: so you call and then so I saw her And I was genuinely happy, like, I was like, Hey! And she just looked at me with a blank look and looked ahead and ignored me and kept walking.

MATT: Well, yeah, she had that kind of scared rabbit look on.

Fawn: Did she? She did. That's one

MATT: of the reasons why I called her out.

Fawn: In a split [00:06:00] second, I turned because I went from like, hi, like I put my arms up. I'm like, hi, and she just stared at me and looked ahead. Like, I'm going to ignore you.

I'm walking away. I was like, so in a split second, I went from, oh dear, from

MATT: zero to 60. I went, I went,

Fawn: I went from mean. Was that, did I,

MATT: no, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Fawn: I went from totally happy to see her. Because I thought all this was my imagination. Like, I haven't heard from her. The last time I asked her, the first time I believe I ever asked for a favor, Um, the way she reacted to it was like, that's when I said, you know what, I'm gonna lay back for a while.

Because her response to me asking a very simple favor, let me know she's not in my camp. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's not.

MATT: Right. There's no lack of faith. Right. Right.

Fawn: So, I just let it go. I [00:07:00] tried not to take it personally. I'm like, okay. Um, and she just, she didn't say no either. She just, it was the way she handled it.

Well, she,

MATT: she did the whole, let me Google that for you.

Fawn: What happened was, her husband is a bigwig at a company. I texted her one day, I'm like, do you mind if I ask him, her husband, if I ask him out for a cup of coffee, if I could treat him out for a cup of coffee so I can talk to him about what he may know about any departments that may be looking for voice artists so therefore I can turn in my demo, like, you know, he, he's a huge executive there.

MATT: He's a big, he's a big ish deal, yes. Or so we've been led to believe.

Fawn: So she said in her text back to me. He doesn't know anything and then she sent me a link to HR Which I could have done myself, you know what I'm saying? It was like

MATT: Now, why do you think she did all of [00:08:00] that?

Fawn: I don't know. I really don't know

MATT: right

Fawn: why

MATT: and that's just it We can never truly know we can only suppose. People who live in a world of scarcity and people who live in a world of It's like, a rising tide lifts all ships, but some people don't believe that.

Some people believe that in order for me to be above the water, I have to push somebody under. So, who's to say? But, it's, it's a hard thing. And, it's really hard when you ask somebody for a favor, and, again, we don't know all the permutations of what she was thinking the favor really meant?

Fawn: Even though I was perfectly honest, I mean, I could have gone to him, I had his phone number, but because she's married, because I'm married, I don't know, I just felt like it was the honest, most respectable thing to do as a married person to ask her first if it's [00:09:00] okay to ask him for a platonic business coffee.

Right.

MATT: It's just, keep in mind, I think she always saw herself, again, as the alpha, and you as the not alpha.

Fawn: Which blows me away, because you told me that today. And I'm like, really? Why didn't you tell me this before? And then you pointed stuff out. I'm like, oh my god. This is stuff I was feeling all along, but I thought it was my imagination.

The fact that every time she came over, I felt judginess. Like, our house is like Cirque du Soleil. It is, it is very bohemian. It's very clean and beautiful. It's a jewel box, but it's not adult.

MATT: And it's a little jewel box.

Fawn: It's, yeah, it's little. You finally admitted we have a small house.

MATT: No, yeah, at what point did I

Fawn: not?

You always, every time I say we have a small house, you're like, no we don't.

MATT: We don't.

Fawn: It is a small never mind. So anyway, what happened was What we [00:10:00] Yeah, I felt little, little stings along the way. Right. But I always thought it was my imagination and you pointed things out today. And that's why I was like, hey, can you please let me know beforehand, like, as you feel them?

And you said, well, I thought you knew, and I'm like, no, I didn't. And

MATT: I would point things out as things happened.

Fawn: I never And there were things that had happened that I thought you understood. I didn't hear you. I didn't. No, because I'm dense in that kind of way. You know, like when, when I was dating and guys were asking me out or they were flirting, I never understood it because I need a simple, like, no beating around the bush kind of like, hey, this is I need it very clear.

You know, you can't just hint at something with me. I never knew these guys were interested in me. Because I didn't want to assume. I never assume.

MATT: Right.

Fawn: You know, it's like me joking. I never joke around. And then when I do joke around, People get so offended. I get [00:11:00] confused.

MATT: I get confused.

Fawn: And you know me.

So, that's what I'm saying. I need you to tell me. You're my partner. I wish you would tell me. I do tell

MATT: you.

Fawn: Look, you need to like, hold my shoulders and go look. You This is what I just saw. So

MATT: I'm going to tell you.

Fawn: Yeah.

MATT: Okay.

Fawn: Thank you. But when you tell me, tell me a few times, I don't get it. I did

MATT: tell you a few times.

Oh

Fawn: my, so what is my problem? But that's just

MATT: it. At the end of the day, I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

Fawn: Yeah. Cause they're little. They're little cuts.

MATT: Right. And well, but the other thing to me is things like stat, you know, people, if somebody wants to be of higher status than me or feel like they're of higher status than me, that's fine.

I don't necessarily care if I enjoy their company, that's fine. And I have an understanding of how the relationship is going to be because I try and go through everything with a very humble spirit, you know, case in point, oh my goodness, we had shenanigans. [00:12:00] I took Mr. Wizard's parking spot. Because I was running late for coffee.

Go for coffee at the gas station. God help me, right? But anyways, there's a total pecking order, total, hierarchy. And the only spot available was Mr. Wizard's spot. So I took Mr. Wizard's spot. It was late enough in the day. And I didn't think he was going to show up, because he doesn't show up every day, so I took his spot.

Then he showed up. I took his spot. Now, on the face of it, maybe that doesn't seem like a big deal. And in point of fact, I don't think it was a huge deal to Mr. Wizard, but I didn't want him to think that I wasn't going to treat it like it was a big deal. So I, oh my goodness. And maybe I overcompensated, but I'm okay with that.

I'm okay with saying, Hey, my status isn't as high as yours or, you know, whatever, I don't want to interfere with the pecking order. So I bought his coffee the next day, 2. [00:13:00] I wrote the ode to Mr. Wizard. I wrote him a ceremonial theft from Calvin and Hobbes saying how cool he was basically and then I gave him an Apology not an apologia, but an apology on for on that Friday.

So all this happened on Monday Tuesday coffee Wednesday owed to mr. Wizard Friday a true apology

Fawn: interjection: we did an episode a long time back called apologia. It's really good. Check it out That's what Matt's talking about. There's a difference

MATT: Right, and basically, Western civilization would have you believe that an apology, you're kind of excusing yourself while saying, oh, but I'm sorry that you feel this way, or I'm sorry this happened.

But I didn't do anything wrong. No, that's not how you apologize. That's an apologia, yeah. That's not how you apologize.

Fawn: But anyway, check out, for sure, check out that episode, "Apologia" yeah.

MATT: So I went, I went out of my way to make sure that he understood that I wasn't saying I was in any way better than he [00:14:00] was.

And I, I want to try and be very conscious of that. Now, I know who I am. I know, theoretically, what my status is and all the rest of it. But, ah, I'm a humble guy. What can I say? I don't have time to put on airs because as soon as you put on airs, somebody bigger, badder, better than you comes along and makes you feel like crap.

And I just as soon not feel like crap. And that's, that's just been my experience. So I've, I've had a lot of people in my life keeping me humble. So I find it's just easier to live that way. And honestly, so does Mr. Wizard, frankly, he's a pretty humble guy. He just, you know, he just wants his parking spot

Fawn: It's such a weird thing. It's been coming up for me the last few months a lot.

Like, I reconnected with L. A. in so many ways. And, and I'm thinking to myself the past few months, I'm like, I still couldn't go back there. Santa Monica, yes. Santa Monica's a different place. [00:15:00] But L. A., the culture.

Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

Fawn: I can't, like, honestly, like, we've had the same clothes for 20 years now.

I mean, I keep buying, like, little things because we wear them out, but they're still the same kind of, like, I don't know, I just feel like, much like our house, it's very bohemian, it's very How would you describe our house as opposed to someone else's house like hers?

It's

MATT: very grown up.

Fawn: It's very stiff. It's there's no color not that there's anything wrong with not having color. Hold on a second Okay, because I know Farnoosh is listening and she loves her She loves her black and white, that's not what i'm talking about.

I'm talking about life. Do you know what i'm saying? life Having, an open home where you feel welcomed, as opposed to stiff, like, here, come sit at the dining room table right here.

MATT: Well, and that comes a lot from, I think, that my parents ground that out of me, and probably you, because, well, we're done with dinner, so let's [00:16:00] go sit in the living room and have a talk.

And here's our pre selected list of talking points, conversation starters. And,

Fawn: like, you know you're not allowed to sit, in this room. You're not allowed, unless

MATT: You get invited.

Fawn: So our home is very

MATT: fun.

Fawn: It's fun free. we rush to the door and fight over who gets to say hello first to the person coming over.

Like

MATT: we almost don't let them inside because we're all

Fawn: we're a bunch of dogs that jump on you when you come over. We're so excited to see you. Anyway, so that's what I meant by no color

, I'm looking at our clothes right now.

MATT: Don't look at, hey, this shirt is brand new.

Fawn: No, it's not. Is it really? It still looks old, honey. No, no,

MATT: no. The overshirt is old, old, old, old, old. Yes, I even have a replacement for this. Matt,

Fawn: but I like playing

MATT: this so much.

Fawn: But, like, it's so I like it. It's like my blankie.

Basically, [00:17:00] it's a classist issue, I think.

MATT: It could be.

Fawn: We don't have designer outfits. We don't have fancy things in our home. It's just very simple. It's simple and playful.

MATT: It's playful.

Fawn: And I don't think we have anything in anyone's wardrobe where we would go to someplace that warrants, and demands a certain degree of

what's the word I'm looking for. A certain degree of altitude is all I can think of. Oh dear. Like, altitude. Because, they're up here, and then they would consider us down here, by the way we are dressed. You know what I'm saying?

MATT: I do, but I do have a Christian Dior, a trench coat.

Fawn: Which you haven't worn the whole time we've been married. But I still have it. Oh my god. And it's old now, it's out of date.

MATT: Trench coats never go out of date.

Fawn: Babe. Oh my god. It has, like, flared, like, 1980s, shoulder pads [00:18:00] or something in it. I don't know, honey, I don't think so. Anyway. Anyway. But this is what I'm talking about.

This is what I'm talking about. I don't think I could be of that altitude even if I tried. Even if someone gave me a makeover. I don't think I could pull it off. You know what I'm saying?

MATT: I totally could.

Fawn: You could. I can't. Anyway, it's been bothering me. , I'm so glad we've always lived in the towns we've lived in because it doesn't demand that kind of thing from us,

but yet, we have the finest education, the finest food, we're like, Very much, educated and all of that. There's just no haughtiness about us, I guess? Right, right,

MATT: right, right. Um, don't mistake our attitude for a lack of sophistication.

Fawn: Thank you, exactly. Exactly. But,

MATT: it's like, we want to be a good host.

As we walk through the [00:19:00] world, we want to be a good host. If somebody wants to start discussing Kierkegaard, let's go. If somebody wants to talk about professional American football, let's go. I'm not here to make someone feel small.

Fawn: Period. End of story. Deep down, there's always that happening.

MATT: Right.

Fawn: So back to the story I went from so excited to see her, to when she did that, when she ignored me like that. I thought you were

MATT: gonna take off your earrings.

Fawn: Oh my god.

MATT: Take off your shoe.

Fawn: , like, as soon as I saw that she did that, I immediately, I don't even remember what I said, but I think I put up my hand on my, like, my palm to her, I was like, alright, like, I don't know what I said something like.

Oh, I see. I see how you are. You know, I'm like, whatever. And I walked away. And then she yelled at me. She yelled at me. And [00:20:00] I genuinely only heard a part of it. And now, I, I, I, I, Oh my god. I did a spin move. You guys were blocking me and I'm short now all the kids are now bigger than I am like taller than I am So I'm like dodging Trying to find her face in the crowd and go what I'm like, what what did I say, man?

I'm like what? And she said, You can't, you can't expect me to say hello after you never returned any of my texts or emails. I'm like, and then I went closer, I'm like, What? You, you sent me emails? Texts? And I thought to myself, the last text she sent me was the link to HR.

You know after I like,

MATT: oh, thank you so much. No,

Fawn: you know, I did it was so It was thank you. I was shocked by it. So I didn't reply to that. Mm

Speaker 3: hmm,

Fawn: and I never Saw any [00:21:00] emails from her? I don't know what what she's talking about and that's what I said, I said, I really don't I don't recall getting anything from you She's like, well,

it's a it works both ways and I'm thinking to myself Well Okay anyway, and then she She just had a wall and I could tell like she got she was getting emotional And I wanted to salvage it. So i'm like i'm so sorry. I just genuinely I never got any info from you and I thought you were mad because I asked a favor of Asking your husband for cough and she she didn't even want to talk about it.

So she cut me off Because she didn't want to talk about it right and she was like You just need to tell me if I ever do anything That's wrong. You need to tell me and vice versa. That's how I am You need to whatever is bothering you obviously she knew something that bothered me and for me, [00:22:00] I had let so many things go, and at that point, I didn't feel like saying, hey, this bothers me that you did that. Now, if it was someone else, like a Farnoosh, you know, like, someone I've known, someone who really, I feel there's great communication back and forth and has known me for a while, I would have said, hey, why, why this kind of response?

What did it mean? Right. Anyway, I just didn't feel like it was worth it, because of all the culmination of all the things that I felt along the way, all of which I thought was my imagination. Right, and,

MATT: but at that moment I was like, seriously? That's it?

Fawn: Yeah, you told me to cut things off, and again, I don't remember you saying that.

So anyway, we came home, I was so shaky. And thank goodness for one of our friends who are, who's our neighbor, who always gives the best advice. She's like, what's the matter? So I told her what happened. She's like, what is going on at that store this week? [00:23:00] Because they also ran into people like that.

And so she gave the best advice. She's like, you've got a lot going for you. You don't have time for that. Like, and this person is obviously not a person to have in your circle. Because she knew all the stuff . Anyway, so that's it. Using my own example, if you've ever gone through this or are maybe going through it, I'm so sorry.

It sucks. That shaky feeling is gross. Take a hot shower, a cold shower, do ice cold, icy hot, whatever it is you do for sore muscles. Detox it off. Get it out of you. Nourish yourselves. was like, okay, I gotta get home and take a shower and wash this off. And my friend who gave us the advice, our neighbor, was like, let's go digging in the dirt, so we planted something.

And that actually helped to ground me. Mm hmm. And then I went and just washed it off, and then here we are recording. Hello. Hello. Thanks for listening, you guys. I don't know. I just wanted to, like, just give you [00:24:00] my personal raw experience for today regarding friendship and sometimes, I mean, once again, this is another example of why people don't want to make friends anymore.

MATT: Why it can be difficult to have friends because people get so caught up in junior high school, high school things, frankly, and the social hierarchy, you know, and it's like, can we just be people?

Fawn: And it's all, again, like you said, it's the scarcity mentality, like

MATT: Very much.

Fawn: Everyone is in flight or, what is it called?

Fight or

MATT: flight mode.

Fawn: Fight or flight mode.

Survival mode.

MATT: Yes, very big time. And it's like, you need to relax. And, you know, in order to have a friend, you have to be a friend. And friends ask each other for help. And you have to be somebody who people feel comfortable coming to for help. And then you actually [00:25:00] have to help them.

Fawn: I have a question, Matt.

Yes. Why was she even friends with me to begin with, if it's, if it was all so judgy? Her kids are better than our kids. Her house is better than our house. Her husband has a, whatever, job job, and, you know, she didn't even know what you do. Like, you're a big time, big time yourself. But, we don't have, you don't wear it all over you, you know what I'm saying?

You're a big deal.

MATT: You really wanna know?

Fawn: Yeah. Just tell me why was she friends with me to begin with?

MATT: And this is the harsh part. Are you ready? This is like, this is the bad part.

Fawn: Am I gonna go cry in my pillow?

MATT: No. What? But this is harsh.

Fawn: Okay. I'm ready.

MATT: She doesn't have any fr

I said it and I mean it. She's alone and she's lonely.

Fawn: She did look pretty miserable when we saw her. [00:26:00]

MATT: Well, she was freaking out because she saw us. There's a difference

Fawn: between freaking out and I know. Like, obviously,

MATT: like It was like a low energy freakout. And we don't, honestly, we don't know what's going on in her life at all.

And things could've, you know, her whole life could have gotten into a royal suck since. We don't know. But I do know, at the point in time you guys became friends, you were her, you were her only friend.

Fawn: Then why treat me like that? It comes from learned behavior, because I noticed a lot of stuff came from her mother, like her mother was very judgy.

MATT: It comes from patterns of behavior. Yeah. And, you know, you do what you've done before regardless, because, because you're still here, it must have been successful. And you don't necessarily have an understanding of flipping the script and doing things differently. Because I used to be a royal a hole. I used to be Mr.

My poo doesn't stink and I'm [00:27:00] better than you and all the rest of it. When were you like that? High school. Uh, and then at some point I realized, whoa, no, that's not the way, that's not the way you really want to be.

Fawn: So question.

MATT: Yes. Is it my

Fawn: job to be her friend despite all of this?

MATT: No.

Fawn: Why?

MATT: Because friendship is, friendship is a necessity,

but people treat it as a luxury. And if you're not willing to put in the effort. I mean, oh my god. Okay, Mr. Wizard didn't care that much. He just wanted to come in and say, You effed up. And look at me and say that. And that was it. That was what he wanted to say. He wanted to hear me say, I'm never gonna do it again.

And that would've been it. Okay? Period. We would've been just fine. But I went the extra, [00:28:00] extra, extra mile because I wanted him to know and I wanted myself to know that friends should go the extra mile for one another period.

That's all.

Fawn: Are we done?

MATT: Well, that was a pretty good speech, I thought.

Fawn: Perfect. Thank you for listening, everybody. Thank you so much. Have a beautiful every day. And, um, let us know what you think. But please be gentle, because I am Very raw. Take care. Hope you're all well. Have a beautiful every day and we'll see you and talk to you in just a few days.

And you know, if you ever need us, we're here. Okay.

MATT: Be well.