Navigating Friendship - The Frog and the Scorpion: Resilience and Perseverance in the Face of Adversity

Projection and the Scorpian, The Frog and the Scorpian -  the Fawn and the Scorpian
Fawn: [00:00:00] Good 
MATT: morning. Good 
Fawn: morning. I tried to make a, how do I say this? Okay. So yesterday I, I came home from hanging out with a friend and it was fun. And a neighbor that is usually not very social with us was out taking care of trash cans. Yes. Yes. In our neighborhood, we have bears, 
so everyone, and this is how we were taught, because I mean, our first day in the neighborhood, the bear showed up, our first day. And so luckily, the friends that we're really close with in the neighborhood, they were standing right next to us, and they, they taught us. The way of living with a bear. The way of the bear.
The way of being Symbiotic? Symbiotic? Symbiotic is a good word. Like, having a relationship with a bear. Like, [00:01:00] this is their place. Right. You know, we're gonna live together, peacefully. Right? Mm hmm. But there's one neighbor who hates them. And wants them dead. So, anyway, And, and, in my opinion With my little tiny experience with this person that they're not very Okay, maybe they're kind but they're not very Lovey dovey.
They're not they're not 
MATT: they're not not lovey dovey. You would want them to be 
Fawn: lovey dovey I want everyone to be that way. No, what's the word for it? They're not soft. They're quite harsh in their delivery they're quite harsh with their even like everything about them is very like just Very 
MATT: And yet, if we had a hurricane, tsunami, tornado, they would be the ones who would know what to do.
Fawn: They're very harsh. Yes. This person is 
MATT: harsh. Well, let's 
Fawn: say blunt. Yeah, that's a good word. [00:02:00] Blunt. But, definitely not, like, a person, a feel good person. Right. To be with, right? But, anyway, I've always wanted to, get closer with her and get to know her better. Mm hmm. And it just hasn't happened.
I think it's been a year and a half. A year and a half, right? Right. Uh, she's very stern. Like a stern I don't know, if you could imagine a school principal you would be in trouble with kind of person. Am I right? 
MATT: You're, you are not wrong. 
Fawn: Alright, so I come home from Whee ya! Like, kind of a coffee date with a friend.
Mm hmm. So I see her outside. Mm hmm. Hey, how's it going? I'm like, oh, let me like I was just in that mood. So i'm like, let me Actually strike up a conversation Beyond a wave right. Usually it's a wave and a nod. We wave, she nods Right? Am I right? [00:03:00] Something like yes. What do you mean something like?
Something like yes. You probably have more interaction with her than I do, yeah How's that? 
MATT: Everybody loves me. That's my secret. That's my superpower. Because 
Fawn: you're a big guy You're a big galoot. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know, people are nicer to you than they are with me. They offer you more respect than they would offer me.
In general, out in society. Anyways. Don't you find 
MATT: that to be true? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering where we're going with talking about me and 
Fawn: Well, alright, so So I'm like, hi, blah, blah, blah. She's like, how's it going? How are things? What's new? Like, she, she said, what's new? She asked what's new, right?
So I'm like excited these days. I'm like so much. Oh my goodness so much She's like tell me but she said tell me as she's going [00:04:00] back and forth in her garage So she had just pulled in and she was going in her garage taking out the big trash can because it was trash day and and I forgot , oh, that's right She has her bear ritual She sprays ammonia all over the place and then puts mothballs down 
anything to get the bears to stay away. Right? and I'm trying to stay away because I can see the spray bottle coming out . Hmm. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't, I don't want to be around that. Mm hmm. And she's like, come follow me. And, you know, because she's so authoritative.
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, okay.
 I'm like following her back and forth. She's making me follow her back and forth, not making me, but like she, she motioned and because I was wanting to connect, I followed her like a sheep back and forth So she starts spraying, and the spray of ammonia, like a cloud, comes right over [00:05:00] me, I was with fresh new clothes, freshly shampooed hair, all that, and it went in my mouth, like, the cloud of it, And then I moved over, I didn't want to be rude, but I moved over, and then the wind shifted, and it turned over to there.
MATT: Standard, like, campfire stuff. Yes, 
I 
Fawn: get it. Oh my gosh. So, and this factors into what I'm about to tell you regarding friendship. Okay. Like, walls and clouds. People create around themselves, so you can't be close to them. Mm hmm. Anyway, so she's like what's new blah blah blah.
How are the kids? I'm like, oh the kids are great pretty much You know ups and downs but Yeah, we're thinking about colleges and stuff and they're so excited and then I did the typical thing, which I shouldn't have Parents say stuff like, Well, I'm not ready for it.
They are, but I'm not ready for it. I was just kind of just goofing around. 
MATT: Thank you for [00:06:00] your service. Remember that episode? Yes, absolutely. You say things that fill 
Fawn: space. Yeah, because I, I know not to get too close with her, because I've noticed she is harsh. I thought it was innocuous enough just to say, Hey yeah, the kids, I just basically described how they're excited about college, which they totally are.
And then I made the mistake of saying, Oh, but I'm not. Because I don't, I don't, like, there's so much into it. Right. Mind you, she doesn't know anything about us, really. She doesn't know anything about me. Other than I'm a homeschooling mom, that we're always hanging out with the kids, and we like to.
As a family, we actually enjoy each other's company. Right. , which is unheard of in most families in the United States, I think. You know, like during the pandemic, all these moms would call me and go, Oh my God, I'm going crazy. Get me out of here. Cause they're with their kids. I love it.
I'm sorry. But this is our [00:07:00] normal life. Thank you for understanding. I'm glad that I was going to say thank you for the pandemic, but not for the harshness of it. No, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying the lessons that come out of it, it allowed families to be together, where normally they wouldn't, that's what I was saying thank you to.
Um, but, I was just struck by how people really don't want to be together, to sit in a room together. 
MATT: Right, it can be, it can be hard, for sure. Why? Well, I think as distance grows, it gets harder to bridge the distances. You know what? Never mind. You should, you should strive to. Yeah. But that's beside the point.
I mean, if you have, um. A whole other show we should maybe do. Well, 
Fawn: yeah. I was gonna say, , I imagined certain relatives, I couldn't even, I can't even stand a phone call. It takes me days to detox from one phone call. Mm hmm. So I can't imagine being in the same room with them. And that happens because.
There is no respect. There is no understanding and loving each [00:08:00] other and like, totally hearing each other and being supportive of one another. That's not there. So yeah, you don't want to be around that. I get it. But like, parents and their little kids? I don't know. I feel like that's where everything stems from.
You're, not wanting to hang out together. And that's how people learn about friendship is how the dynamics are within the family. Right. The people closest to you as you're growing up. Is there a distance? Like, do you not want to hang out together? Do you feel like you're a burden?
Do you feel like they don't really want me here? They don't really get me. They don't even see me. They're not listening to me. Yeah, you don't want to hang out with that. And you learn that as a kid. So, how are you supposed to have friendships that are meaningful and true, true friendships if that's all you ever know about relationships?
And as a kid growing up, that's all you know is that kind of relationship. Right. So I think it would be a miracle, in my opinion, for someone growing up in that atmosphere to [00:09:00] be able to be a true friend to someone or recognize that when they see one and knowing how to hold on to that. Because you do have to be selfless.
You do have to be unconditionally loving. It's not just for romantic relationships. It's for all relationships. Anyway, so back to the trash can and the ammonia and the question, you know, the very innocent question like, how are things, right? Right. It led to me saying the kids are great, they're excited.
I'm not. Uh huh. Ha ha. Like I even like kind of went, you know, like I was just the nervous laughter and immediately Is the word tirade? Immediately this, this barrage of like unsolicited Advice? Reprimand. Ooh, even better. Came at me, and I'm standing there like, what, what is, what just happened? Um, so basically I was [00:10:00] told that, I'm being selfish and that my kids are going to hate me and my kids are going to resent me, that I need to stop.
Uh, living vicariously through them, and wanting them to do what I want them to do, and I mean, she wasn't talking normally, either. It was with, like, a vengeance. And I'm like, uh You know, and every, every time someone says something to me, I take everything to heart. Right. I'm like, oh my god, is that what I'm doing?
Like, and then I'm, I'm just standing there, and she won't even let me put a word in. I'm to like defend myself or explain, Hey, that's not what I was saying. I am pro college. I want them to study. Hello. That's why we're homeschooling is so they can study way more and learn way more than they do in some decrepit [00:11:00] school within our society.
Like Our kids speak like, you know, they, they have been studying five different languages or like advanced in math and Really great at communication and writing and art, you know That's why we're totally big on education is that's why we're homeschooling. Anyway, so I was really thrown by that Really thrown and now I'm covered in ammonia.
Even better so I The way it ended was, thank goodness, because the tirade was not stopping. Mm hmm. And, um, the way it ended was she got a phone call. Yay! And she waved me away like, I gotta go. I'm like, okay, bye. With a 
MATT: strange ringtone, but yes. 
Fawn: So, I come home, I'm like, I I I feel like I have I went to take a shower.
MATT: Well, you came in and you're like, Oh my god, should I, shouldn't I? And I'm like, please do, please, please, 
Fawn: please. Because you smelled me, you're [00:12:00] like, yeah, I smell it. 
MATT: The other thing is, is like, you'll like, go through and like, you'll second guess that for the rest of the day. Well, 
Fawn: first of all, it was in my mouth and in my nostrils, right?
But I thought, well, maybe it's just me. But you smelled it on me. I smelled 
MATT: it on you, but also it was gonna, it was gonna linger in your hair and on your clothes and you were gonna smell 
Fawn: it the rest of the day. So here I go, like. I don't know, I saw this movie when I was a kid about someone who went through a nuclear, like, thing that happened, like in a lab, and they had to scrub her down to take the radiation off of her.
It was like one of those showers. I was just like, ugh! And then every article of clothing and jewelry I had, I was wearing, I had to wash that too. It was everywhere, like, so anyway, it started me thinking, after I talked to you, that, There's not only a wall, but like, that cloud of the spraying
anyway, so many things to talk about. So many levels of me trying to [00:13:00] understand what happened with this interaction. To talk about friendship, of course, but what was that? Because that same 24 hours that led to a whole chain of events, and I'm like, this is terrible. So I went, and I took all my clothes and some of the kids clothes, that needed washing.
Usually, you put things in the washer and dryer before the sun comes up. Right. So, you go in the basement and it's dark in there. You don't really see a lot, right? You're in and out really quick. So, I went down, it's daytime, and I'm like, whoa, what's this on the ground?
 You guys, there was a swarm of these bugs, same bug, same kind of bug. And I'm like, what is this? Mind you, I'm freshly showered, all cleaned up. I'm like, and then the closer I looked, the, the, the more I realized it's a swarm. It's all over the ground. It was covered. Everything was covered.
Everything in the basement was covered with these [00:14:00] bugs, and some of them had wings. And so I, I put stuff in the wash. I, I start vacuuming them up. And then I come upstairs, and I start looking it up on the internet, trying to figure out what is this bug. Go back downstairs, take pictures of one, a macro shot of a couple, and found out they are termites.
Oh my goodness. Alright, so, that leads into, like, okay, we gotta call an exterminator right now, or somebody to come in right, right now. This is, this is like, epic. Epic. Epic, you guys. Let's call it 
MATT: biblical. Biblical. 
Fawn: And while I'm waiting for the guy to call us back, I'm looking up spiritually what it means to have termites and it was actually quite positive.
It's about resilience and perseverance, getting the job done. I'm like, okay, So I started to think of the show [00:15:00] we did a long time ago. About the farmer is it good? Is it bad? I don't know the farmer gets a horse a horse shows up and the neighbors are like, oh, you're so lucky He's like maybe so maybe not and then the horse as his son He tries to train the horse, the horse, he breaks his ankle or something.
He, he gets thrown from the horse 
MATT: and 
Fawn: he breaks his leg. And so the people, his, the neighbors come and they're like, Oh, such bad luck. Oh, that terrible, bad, and He's like, maybe so, maybe not. And then the army comes to take all the young men. to war but they can't take him anyway goes on and on so thankfully because i got sprayed with ammonia i noticed that you wouldn't have noticed it you're right because as the exterminator comes we get a full on lesson in termites And the area we live in, what causes that, why the swarm, we learned so much, we got a crash course in 
MATT: And this is the time of year where it may 
Fawn: [00:16:00] occur.
Right. And then he taught us how it occurs and why, and oh my goodness, it was nuts. It was a nutty day. And that same day, I'm like, well, I go to the exterminator, I'm like, is this like an STD, like a sexually transmitted disease, so that Now we have to tell our neighbors that we have this. He's like, it's up to you.
I'm like, what does that mean? Do we tell them or not? Like do we get labeled, you know, like as the ones with the termites? So anyway, so I couldn't handle any more negativity. There was so much happening. Mm hmm. There's been so much happening in the last two weeks.
Anyway, so I'm like, okay, we gotta tell. We gotta tell our besties. So we did. One bestie took it, great. She's like, okay, cool. Thanks for telling me. I'm gonna go check my basement right now. The other one, I got venom. It was the kind of the same thing. So that's when I normally come to you, Matt.
I'm like, Matt, break this down for me. What [00:17:00] is happening? Why am I getting this kind of venom? I call it venom. Whatever it is I'm getting from these people. What's happening? And what'd you say? Well, I 
MATT: said, okay, so let's not forget everybody is basically doing the best they can. Everybody always acts in a moral way, but we have no idea what other people are, what's happening with them.
And the other thing is, is people have this really nasty habit of projecting onto you their own stuff. So it can be a complete and utter jumble of why did I get this reaction? Okay. You know? Yeah. And sometimes it's like, Oh my god, this is just one more thing. Or, this is, you know, I'm already dealing with this and that and the other.
And now I have to deal with this. So again, I guess I'm saying one more thing all over again. which, is hard for people. I mean, what are you supposed to do? I mean, since we've gotten this [00:18:00] house, we've had all kinds of interesting, terror, terrible, but not terrible, weird, but not weird 
Fawn: stuff that's happened.
Guys, every month there's something to take care of with this house. Seems like it.
So, So you called it projection. I called it projection. And I was kind of thinking that while it was happening with our first friend, with the ammonia, our ammonia friend. And I was like, huh? Cause at first I was like, I'm a bad parent. Oh my God. I'm obviously doing everything she's saying I'm doing.
And then after some, some time. After a long time, it seemed like forever, I had to step back and go, no, she doesn't know you. She doesn't know you. She doesn't know my relationship with the kids. Like for her to say, they're going to resent you, like that's a prophecy. They're going to resent you because you are living the life that you want to live and you need to [00:19:00] let them live the way they want.
Like that's how she was talking to me. I'm like, Whoa, lady, What's happening? I was internalizing all of this, like I'm that kind of person. Which is the 
MATT: one thing you're not supposed to do when somebody starts projecting all 
Fawn: over you. Yeah, yeah, I looked it up. You need to keep distance, distance, distance.
But the thing is, To make sure that you're not the one projecting because we all do it. Yes, we all projected it at some points but but that's just me. I always internalize things. Everything is my fault , whatever someone says is true about me is what I'm thinking until I have to step back and like Really think about it.
And if it really messes me up, I talk to people that have known me for many, many years. Mm-Hmm. that really know me and, and the situations, and have a certain distance so they're not totally biased. Right. And then they can say, no, that's not you. That's not what you do. That's not the situation. Right.
So I [00:20:00] can have definite, like, am I being a narcissist? Like, am, am I. Is this me or not me? You know what I'm saying? Am I, am I responsible or not? Like, you know what I'm saying? I, 
MATT: I do, but you know what? Let's take just a half a moment. Well, but, 
Fawn: uh, can I, can you hold that thought? But what I was going to say was that as it was happening, I realized something for a split second, but I didn't entertain it.
I was thinking, I wonder if that's where she is stuck. I wonder, you know how we always say you can tell when someone's experience is so big that it leaves them in that space and time forever. Usually, like, people, let's say at age 11, experience some sort of trauma, and they're forever stuck at that age 11.
Because they're not able to process and move through whatever happened. So they're reliving what happened. And they could be 80 years old but still stuck at 11 of something unprocessed. [00:21:00] And as she was yelling at me, I was like, I wonder if her mom made her do something she didn't want to do. Right. Anyway, what 
MATT: were you going to say?
See, that's exactly what I was going to say. We should back up and actually discuss what projection, what is projection. 
Fawn: I looked it up, actually. Do you have notes? Did you look it up, too? Or, you already know all this stuff, somehow. 
MATT: Somehow. Projection is just somebody who kind of puts their, puts their burdens, puts their stuff, puts their reality into you.
Because everybody believes, in my mind, in my heart, in my whatever, whatever. Everybody believes they're just like themselves. And I lived with that forever. And I'm not like anybody else, but I believed everybody was just like me. Which doesn't process. It doesn't make any coherent, logical sense. You are 
Fawn: a 
MATT: very rare individual.
But it, it kind of shredded me, so [00:22:00] I, I Projection becomes a very, very tricky thing for me. But it also means that sometimes I get blindsided by it and I, I have certain expectations, particularly at work for how others should be, how others should act when they reach a certain level of skill, because this is how I acted when I reached this level of skill.
And so I have, I have issues with people who aren't acting the way I would, which is a danger. And, and that just goes to show, I mean, everybody projects at some point. Right. , and it's, it's a matter of, in a work situation, having, making sure people understand, uh, your expectations. 
But in a, in personal life, obviously you can't say, well, my expectations for you are. 
Fawn: So this is a conversation you and I were having at 345 in the morning. Yes. Right. Cause it's our only time to really talk. [00:23:00] Sometimes yes. Can you break it down for me, Matt? Like what happened yesterday? Like, what was that about?
You're like projection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, okay, explain. And so you broke it down. And so then I went and I also looked it up. I, not you, you didn't look it up, but you were explaining exactly the way you just explained it. And, I was just going to reiterate, yeah, you are really weird, Matt. You are, you are, as in magical, as in magical, because you are unusual.
Like the first time I ever laid eyes on you at the dojo, I was like, you know. It's the same story I always tell, but like, you know, you, you sit on your knees and stuff, and you're like, all in a straight line, facing Mhm. Facing, the master teacher, and the shrine behind him, of Osensei, and everybody's facing that way.
I wasn't. I was, like, totally, like, [00:24:00] staring at you to my left, staring at you going, What? Is this? I was paying attention to what you're supposed to do. You were you were but could you sense me looking at you by the way? No, 
MATT: I was like I get 
Fawn: into a I was like, I don't think my shoulders were even facing the front of the room I was just like everybody's facing the front of the room.
I'm facing to my left Matt probably scrunching my face like What is going on here? You're very unusual. You really are. I was 
MATT: focused on class. What was I doing 
Fawn: that was so weird? No, your whole presence, everything, the way you think, the way you behave, is very unusual. It's not like most people. So like when you said, you know, you tend to think, you thought that everyone, you assumed everyone would think like you.
Everyone thinks that. Yeah, exactly. But you truly think differently. 
MATT: Well, and and so we get a lot [00:25:00] vehemently shook me by my shoulders The more often that you know as far as like, you know, metaphorically if you will, When when it gets thrown at you how different you really are, right? 
Fawn: Constantly and thank God for you because you kind of said that about me as I would come crying every day After a full day of work coming to the dojo in tears a lot because of work, and you would talk to me, and you consoled me, counseled me, consoled me, all of that.
But anyway, so I looked up, uh, I looked up the whole projection thing, and so it said exactly what you said. Displacing one's feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. Which is interesting. It is. Like, I wonder what that looks like projecting onto an object. Well, I mean. Look at you, you 
MATT: rock.
I've been, I have, you know, once upon a time, I have projected onto like a [00:26:00] stuffed animal frustrations and then thrown it across the room. 
Fawn: Is that projection? 
MATT: I'm, I projected all over this poor little, you know, stuffed bear. 
Fawn: Like, like the bear is And hurled it. Oh 
MATT: dear. 
Fawn: Well no, I had to get it away. Okay, so this comes from, I found this all on everydayhealth.
com. Oh dear. Okay, so that's displacing, that's the definition. And then the signs , of projection is being defensive, making unfounded accusations, and being overly critical. 
MATT: Okay, 
Fawn: the causes of it. Interesting. People tend to project because they have a trait or desire that is too difficult to acknowledge.
Rather than confronting it, they cast it away and onto someone else. This function is to preserve they're self esteem, making [00:27:00] difficult emotions more tolerable. So it makes sense. So I talked about being a teen going off to college, which is a big time in a person's life. And I'm sure that was a huge time for her.
And God knows what she got from her mom at that point. So as soon as I brought that up, she was not able to see anything but her experience. She was not able to hear me, but was reliving hearing everything from her experience. So I wasn't even there anymore. Right. I was a teddy bear. You were just a vessel.
Yes. Yeah. Okay. It's interesting. everydayhealth. com, also went into talking about how projection affects the health. It affects the health. If someone does it a lot, they said it's likely to lead to some rocky [00:28:00] relationships. Hello. You think? Like, I, I said, I'm never going to talk to this person like that ever again.
I'm just going to wave from now on. Right. Okay. I don't want to be, I can't be friends with that. 
MATT: Well, there's more to it going on with that person, by the way. I know, I 
Fawn: know. There's a lot more. But, I, I don't have it in me to constantly. No, no, 
MATT: no. I'm not saying you should do anything about it. You know, there are people who, , you need to keep at a distance.
And she is one of those people. And I felt that from the beginning. Which is why it weirded me out when, whenever she asked me for help or a favor. I did her a favor, and I just got out of her house as quickly as possible after I was done. I didn't, no idle chitchat, no nothing. I didn't even tell you this.
I literally, , first time in her house, she's like, houses are all similar. So, you know, do you want to see what I've done? And she told me stories about the house and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then after I'd [00:29:00] done a computer thing for her, she was like, yeah, you go downstairs, check out the kitchen. And so I did.
And then I just left. I didn't say goodbye. You didn't say goodbye to her? I did not say goodbye. I just got out. 
Fawn: I was done. Yeah, because you say goodbye and you don't know what that's gonna lead to. And 
MATT: also she was meeting with a plumber and that's why she needed some computer help to watch a video, blah, blah.
It doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant. But I just left. I just left. Because, yeah, exactly. It would have been, it could have been 15 20 minutes until I left. And I just wanted to get home. So? But. Understanding, if we think back to other podcasts we've done, she has her inner Popeye the same way we all do.
And she is very focused on her inner Popeye, but her inner Popeye is more like the scorpion. 
Fawn: Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah, that's what you [00:30:00] were saying at 3. 45 in the morning. Yes. Hold that thought. Can I just finish this sentence about what what this psychology thing said? Please remember the inner Popeye. Hold on.
Let me just finish so This can lead to rocky relationships. Okay, it could also be a sign of depression and anxiety and to borderline narcissistic and anti social personality traits. okay, you, I have some more notes about it, but tell me about the inner Popeye. Yeah, because that, that's what, that's why, as soon as you said projection, I was intrigued.
And then, At 3. 45 in the morning, at this point was like 3. 50 in the morning. When you got to the inner Popeye and the Scorpion, that's why I was like, We need to tell our friends about this. We need to do an episode. And it was this point that was like, this is what everyone needs to hear. Go, Matt. 
MATT: I always talk [00:31:00] about the inner Popeye because Popeye is the cartoon character who is what he is.
I am what I am. And there's a power in that. And there's an understanding because Popeye very much knows exactly who he is. No question. And I strive to make sure that I can hold to my inner Popeye and I understand my inner Popeye. But then there's a weirdness because we also talked about The story of the frog and the scorpion, where frog and scorpion cross the river, scorpion stings frog, frog, why did 
Fawn: you do this?
Hold on, back up, back up. Just say the story again. Let's start from the beginning. There's a river. There's a river. And there's a frog. There's a frog. And he's, he's about to cross the river. Yes. And the scorpion also wants to cross the river. He's like, hey frog, can you give me a ride? Can I jump on your back?
And the frog basically Tell me if I'm doing it right or not. The frog says, no way, man, because you're just gonna sting me, and then we're both, you know, we're gonna be in [00:32:00] trouble. And then he said, And then the 
MATT: scorpion says, why would I do that? Because if I sting you, we'll both 
Fawn: drown. So the frog is like, okay.
Alright. So he hops on, and they're going, and they're in the middle, right? Mm hmm. And he gets stung by the scorpion. And the frog's like, why did you As they're going down. As they're drowning. He's like, why did you do that? Now we're 
MATT: both going to die. And the scorpion says, because I'm a scorpion. Dang. So, there's a danger, but somewhere 
Fawn: between.
And the lesson is, people are the way they are. Don't expect them. That's, what, oh, this sounds 
MATT: harsh. Don't project your own goodness or whatever into it. There's projection all over this, right? Right, right, right. Don't make any assumptions about the nature of their character because they are a scorpion.
And it's not necessarily a bad thing, like, if there [00:33:00] was a zombie apocalypse, I would want to go to her house and figure out what plan she had. Because it'd probably make a lot more sense than my plan, I'll be honest. Not even kidding. Right. Right? Right. Period. 
Fawn: You don't want to mess with her. She definitely takes care of business.
Exactly. Yeah, so if a bear is invading her stuff, she wants the bear killed. Right. 
MATT: And, you know, I'm willing to bet that she has the accoutrement to make that happen. Oh my god. But anyways, that's beside the point. Keep in mind though, have an understanding of the personality traits.
that you're dealing with around you. So the scorpion is the scorpion and that's how they're going to act in these situations. Don't project onto them anything. So don't make any assumptions. So I'm, I'm always very careful cause I like to joke around a fair amount at work, but I always kind of [00:34:00] clear the ground.
I make sure that the other person understands, A, I'm joking and B, they're totally okay with that. And I do that, by having chitchats, side channels with them before I do something stupid. Because I generally do something that's maybe a little foolish to make things happen. But I'm very careful not to project onto people.
So in as much as, she was projecting onto you her own trauma, we need to, we need to keep that at a distance and really have our inner Popeye in mind and have our highest self in mind as they're saying whatever it is they're saying. I always like to say truth is truth and I get confronted by this all the time.
I get confronted all the time with things where people will say, this won't work. And it's like, we'll see. It's always, we'll see. It's not unlike the Chinese farmer. We'll see if it's good news or bad news. We'll see what [00:35:00] happens. 
Fawn: Well, Matt, that's exactly what the psychologist said. Check this out. So, there was a section I should have been a psychologist.
Well, you know what? We are. It's so funny because we get people from, like, PR people reaching out to us about, like, this PhD and that doctor and this doctor, you know, would like to be on your show. And, after a couple of these people were like, we really can't and don't want these people on because I mean, we're normal people, but we're normal people with some years of experience, like, true human experience.
So, yeah, it's great to have, like, the doctor, say their analysis, their whatever it is, but we know what we're talking about as human beings with experience, you know what I'm saying? Right, we also We don't have PhDs, but we know what we're talking about here in this in this in this realm 
MATT: Well, I also think A, we pay [00:36:00] attention and B, certainly for me and I think for you as well, we can go between tribes.
There are tribes now in our society like with their own rigid structures and hierarchies between work and, you know, Democrats, Republicans, there's just so much like strata there and navigating it can be tricky. 
Fawn: Yes. Anyway, so back to what the psychologists were saying. So there was a section on how to cope.
So how to cope if you're the one projecting, and how to cope when you're the one receiving it. Right? So, if it's you that's projecting. You need to become aware of your triggers and behavior, and this usually involves therapy, but, um, Well, I mean, to say, you know, because you're so stuck in it, you may not be able to notice, like, hey, I'm triggered.
You're just rel you're just living it, so you're [00:37:00] not even aware. You're not able to step aside and go, whoa. Unless someone Behaves radically in a way that can snap you out of it. Like, what if I had started crying as she's telling me this? And yelling at her and saying, How Why are you saying that about me?
You don't know me! You know, like, but I didn't. I was just listening. Like, with my eyes, like, pretty wide, I'm sure. Like, what? But anyway, it says, So, if it's you that's projecting, become aware of your triggers and behavior. And, to be open and accepting of feedback, which they're not, these people, right?
When someone triggers a negative emotion in you, reflect instead of reacting. Reflect, but I don't think they're in that space to do it by themselves. And it says, it is really about them or You have to ask yourself, is it really about [00:38:00] them, or is it something deeper going on inside of you? So, like, in this case, is it really that I don't want my kids to go to college and I'm not going to let them?
Or is it about you being triggered by this whole idea of a parent maybe having some, some feelings about their kids going off to college? You know, so how to cope if you're on the receiving end, if you're getting hit with projection, if someone is projecting all over you, You have to remember the criticism or accusation isn't about you, which is what you said.
It's more important that you not accept or internalize what the person is saying about you. I do not accept delivery. I accept delivery. I'm like, okay, whatever. Yeah, okay. I'm a terrible. Oh, like I totally assume it. 
MATT: [00:39:00] Just cuz somebody offers you something doesn't mean you have to 
Fawn: take it. But all of this Matt, in my opinion, All this projection, in my opinion, is a way to keep people at a distance.
I think it's a coping mechanism. Like I said, if a person is stuck in a big turning point in their lives, if they're stuck in that moment in time, I think to save themselves from more hurt, that wall is there. So it is harder to make friends. They don't, they only have a specific, maybe ritual around friendship, 
like, maybe they'll have Mahjong Day. A group of people coming together, or you're with an organization of friends. But not a bestie you always hang out with. That's my opinion, you're making a stinky 
MATT: face. Yes, I am making a stinky face. 
Fawn: I think [00:40:00] this is, this is a wall that goes up to protect themselves from other people because they don't want to relive another situation that is similar to 
whatever that was that happened to them. You understand what I'm saying? I do, but You're keeping people at bay. You're 
MATT: keeping people at bay. But you're also telling them, on many levels, who you really are. Perhaps in the hopes that they'll accept you and say, Oh my god, you're so right, you're so wise. 
Fawn: I don't think anyone It could, 
MATT: it could circle back to, they really, you know, on some level they're trying to connect, and they aren't, because that's honestly what I believe everybody's doing in every conversation they have, is they are trying to connect.
But they're also trying to find their tribe, they're trying to find people who agree with them. When they see something they disagree with, they want to call it out. Because I [00:41:00] think people want to find people who do think like them. 
Fawn: So you're thinking she was trying to open up to me and provide guidance in my life?
Like as a person to turn to for wise advice? But, from my perspective, it was venomous. Because 
MATT: you are not them, but when you're trying to find someone who does think like you, because you believe that everyone, or at least a significant percentage of people, think just the same way I do. I mean, we live in the same town, we live right across from each other, start filling in whatever blanks you want from there, right?
Maybe we drive the same model make of car, people start to assume maybe you're just like them and, and, you know, so you're going to be maybe more open. That doesn't mean you should be, that doesn't mean you are, doesn't stop them from projecting, but it can also be a way of shooting up a flare to see if there's anybody like you out there.[00:42:00] 
Fawn: I'm confused, but I It's conflicted. It's conflicting. I will just remember what you said. She's a scorpion. I'm a fawn. Yep. And I'll just 
MATT: remember that. And you should remember, ain't nobody thinks like you do, ain't nobody thinks like I do. And honestly, nobody thinks like anybody out there. Just like. It's about finding those commonalities.
And y'all don't have much. You mean me and Y'all don't have much in common. Not much. But that doesn't stop her from wanting to find more people like her. 
Fawn: Right. Okay. Well, that, that did help, , relieve some of the sting. Mm hmm. Thank you for that. So, for those of you listening, maybe you've experienced that and we hope that helps you relieve you of the sting.
 This is all the stuff we need to navigate in finding friendship and continuing friendship and keeping friendship. So, [00:43:00] it's funny, I was thinking how a lot of our shows are about, things that go awry, but I think that's really important to talk about the things that go awry so we can figure them out and be better friends.
And not take everything in such a devastating manner. Right. Because I was devastated. 
MATT: Right. And I get it. Water is wet. Truth is truth. Just because somebody offers you something, you don't have to accept it. 
Fawn: And there you go, folks. Let's wrap it up here. Thank you. Unless you want to say something else? That was brilliant.
Cute little bow. That was a cute little bow, honey. Good job. All right. Thank you again for being with us. Have a beautiful every day. We'll talk to you soon, and if you want us before that, please reach out to us. We're here. Okay? 
MATT: By the way, we are taking care of our termites. So, yay for us, and so that shouldn't be a problem anymore, so please don't worry too much about it.
Thank you. [00:44:00] Okay, so, uh, everyone 
Fawn: Biblical! Biblical, you guys! Everyone 
MATT: be well.