Niceness vs Kindness

Transcript: Niceness vs Kindness
[00:00:00] Fawn: Hello everybody. Welcome back. Hello. Preface, preface, preface. Today, bear with us today. We're gonna make a very generalized statement. Bear with us. Just hang in there. We have a point. But before we start, I gotta tell you, we're gonna say some stuff and it seems like, wow, you're just putting a broad, broad paintbrush on all of humanity and Just bear with us and just kind of go with it.
[00:00:32] Fawn: Here we go. Matt, take it all over. 
[00:00:37] MATT: Oh, so we've managed to live in one or three places. Across the United 
[00:00:41] Fawn: States. We've been traveling, so, you know, and plus we've been taking notes all of our lives. You know, I have anyway. So, this is through our travels. We've noted this. Again, bear with us. Go ahead Matt. 
[00:00:58] MATT: But I've never heard it phrased quite this succinctly.
[00:01:03] MATT: So the, the, the saying is, and this annoys at least half of the country, um, the East Coast. Which is, you know, New York to Florida. People are kind, but they're not nice. And then on the West Coast, people are nice, but they're not 
[00:01:25] Fawn: kind. So that's what people are saying. That's what, ever since I was little, I would hear that.
[00:01:31] Fawn: Like, East Coasters are so gruff. They're, they're definitely not nice. They don't say hello to you. Blah, blah, blah. It's not true. But, but, because we have been traveling. I gotta say, there's a lot of truth in it. And if you bring people from the west coast into the conversation, for example, we're in this neighborhood, so, in this neighborhood, they ask you a bunch of questions.
[00:01:59] Fawn: They're always aware of everything you do. And, it seems, so, when you first start to explain this situation to people that are from the West Coast that are here. They have such a bad reaction to that. They don't even let me finish what I'm saying. And they're like, Oh, God, that's awful! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
[00:02:24] Fawn: What I'm trying to tell people is how kind and caring and genuinely interested people are in you, in your life, in making things better for you. And before I have a chance to fully explain that, the West Coast people are saying how awful it is that we come across these people, that to the West Coasters are just busybodies.
[00:02:54] Fawn: And I'm trying to explain you don't seem to get it. This is community. They genuinely have an interest in our lives, our children, where the children are going. Are they okay? Do you need anything? They're not like, hey, how's it going, pretending they're your friend, and that's it, and like gossiping behind your back, or like, just looking , through the windows to see what you're up to.
[00:03:22] Fawn: They're genuinely, there to help you out, like, they want to help. Anyway, that's, that's what I've noticed. 
[00:03:30] MATT: And there's a humongous attitude, almost a bluntness about the whole thing. Oh yeah, 
[00:03:35] Fawn: they're not 
[00:03:36] MATT: nice. They're, they're very, like. 
[00:03:39] Fawn: Straight to the point. 
[00:03:41] MATT: I, I, I was sitting on an airplane and a gentleman next to me, I'm like, you know, I'm like, you know, jibber jabbering.
[00:03:50] MATT: That's what we do. And the first thing he says is, you're not from here, are you? This was on the East Coast. And I was like, well, no. He's like, yeah, yeah, we don't, we don't talk much here. 
[00:04:04] Fawn: But that's not true because we've had so many people talk to us on the East Coast. Right? Right. 
[00:04:12] MATT: Like this? I, I think they have to understand you're part of their community.
[00:04:19] MATT: And then they'll talk to you. 
[00:04:21] Fawn: Here, okay, so I have a theory. Yes. But I don't want to cut you off. No, no, go ahead. No, because you've been wanting to talk about this for a long time. Go ahead. No, I don't want to take your thunder 
[00:04:31] MATT: away. No, I have no thunder. 
[00:04:34] Fawn: Fine, okay. So I think the root of the problem, and this is where I want to bring it back to, okay, we're not necessarily trying to paint a big brush over humanity and say, If you're from here, you're nice, but not kind, and if you're here, you're kind, but not nice.
[00:04:56] Fawn: I forgot what I just said. Anyway, you know what I mean, right? So I think that the problem is being in a hurry to create community and friendship that we have. Let me, let me try to explain this right. I just think that we are in such a hurry to create community and friendship. That we haven't progressed past the introductions.
[00:05:24] Fawn: We keep meeting people with our intros and we don't explore them fully. We don't explore them further than that. And I think that that's, that tends to happen a lot on the West Coast. More so than the East Coast. Because everyone's in a bubble. People tend to drive more. They, I don't know, things are just different.
[00:05:49] Fawn: And also, the weather plays into it, whereas I think in places where they have more of a history of community and family, and maybe less cars, and harsher weather, you experience humanity differently. So you don't have time maybe for idle chit chat? But you're there to take care of one another. I mean, if you looked it up on the internet, like, I kind of looked it up, like, hey, what are other people saying about kindness versus niceness?
[00:06:21] Fawn: Yeah, the east coasters, like, if they see you on the side of the road, your car is broken down, you have a flat tire, they'll probably curse you out, but they'll be changing your tire. Did you read 
[00:06:32] MATT: that? Right. Yeah. They'll call you stupid maybe for going out with balding tires or something. Or like... 
[00:06:37] Fawn: And how could you do this?
[00:06:38] Fawn: Or like, this is such a pain. Like, you know, they'll be complaining while changing your tire. Right. Helping you out. Whereas on the West Coast, people are like, oh, they'll say nice things to you but never help you. 
[00:06:51] MATT: Well, they'll just assume you have AAA to change your tire or, you know, a tow truck must already be on its way.
[00:06:57] MATT: Somebody must have 
[00:06:58] Fawn: already called. But... I just think that, have we, everyone's looking really deep down for community, regardless of what they say, this is what I've noticed, regardless of what people say, like years ago when we talked about our friendship movement and what we're working on, immediately people would get so offended and say, that's so unnecessary, I, for example, have lots of friends, I actually don't want any more friends.
[00:07:28] Fawn: I don't need any more friends, like they get so irate with you if you bring this subject out. And it wasn't even that I was talking about them, I was talking about society in general. Talking about, have we lost community? I feel like we have. And so I think that
[00:07:50] Fawn: all we do is like, you know, when you meet someone, I know I'm all over the place. But when you first meet someone, Matt. Maybe you've noticed this with me. There is such energy in that moment of getting to know one another that you want to Let them know as much as possible about yourself to learn about each other And it may not go well, like it may not be a match Right, right.
[00:08:14] Fawn: I mean this is one of the reasons why we started this whole thing because we realized years ago it's like dating all over again to find true love, but really, we're, we're trying to find a friend. But it's like dating all over again because, you go through all this effort you express so much energy and you put so much thought into it.
[00:08:33] Fawn: And then you're like, uh oh, this person is not for me. They're, you know what I'm saying, like it's, it's not a match. Right. And you have to start all over again. So I think that maybe we have our introductions. It's all thought out and all played out, whereas I think people, I'll just say West Coast, East Coast, but let's just say the type of person and let's use East Coast and West Coast as the types of people.
[00:09:06] Fawn: I'm not saying, I'm not saying all East Coast people are this way or all West Coast people are this way. And by the way, sorry, rest of the world to talk about America, but I think everyone can understand what we mean. There's always a certain part of a neighborhood that or a certain part of a culture that acts differently or like behaves differently, right?
[00:09:28] Fawn: So let's just think of it in terms of that in general I just think that east coast people don't have time for that kind of nonsense of a rehearsed In whatever way in whatever capacity a rehearsed introduction Right. Do you know what I'm saying? It's about getting to the meat.
[00:09:47] Fawn: It's, it's just about getting to the heart of the matter. And it's about being there for one another and being kind. And I was thinking about this. I'm like, oh no, I don't think I'm a kind person. Well, because nice people tend to say really happy things, make the person feel better. They're positive and everything, but will you go out of your way and change the tire?
[00:10:14] Fawn: Don't don't you guys don't ever ask me to pick you up from the airport anymore. I don't want to do that Oh dear, do you know what I'm saying? I do. I'm like, oh no, I need to work on being kinder a kind person. 
[00:10:29] MATT: It's interesting Yeah, the etymology of kind which we've talked about before is of a helpful nature Which is kind of what we expected but then if you also look at it a little further of a forbearing nature Which means they're standoffish.
[00:10:46] MATT: So it's literally Baked into the dictionary definition. And then nice, the etymology, the original definition is kind of silly and foolish, believe it or not. Which is kind of interesting. And then even kinder, in German it means child. Which is, again, interesting.
[00:11:05] MATT: Yeah, 
[00:11:05] Fawn: because, going back to the basics, I think originally, before they learned bad habits, 
[00:11:11] Fawn: children are kind
[00:11:12] Fawn: They are very compassionate and empathetic what they have. Yeah. Until they start learning differently. And it starts very 
[00:11:23] MATT: early until they find somebody who just takes whatever they have and doesn't, doesn't, right. Tra la las off, which is interesting,
[00:11:34] MATT: which is interesting. And I think some of that has to do with the fact that East coast is older than the West coast. And so community is a little more deep seated. And 
[00:11:48] Fawn: then... I mean, yeah. I mean, just looking at the architecture. Yes. Things are in 
[00:11:53] MATT: stone. But also, like, as the towns grew up, it wasn't, planned by Microsoft or built by this great commercial interest.
[00:12:05] Fawn: Well, no. There are a lot of things, a lot of towns on the East Coast are built by commercial interest. Well, 
[00:12:12] MATT: yes, but they were built by a factory that doesn't exist anymore. They weren't built around 
[00:12:18] Fawn: a shopping mall. They weren't built around a modern, kind of like Hollywood set kind of atmosphere. Right.
[00:12:24] Fawn: They 
[00:12:24] MATT: were built around the train station, or they were built around the grain and feed store, or... 
[00:12:31] Fawn: Right. Like a lot of towns in, so we, we grew up in Los Angeles. And what always got me, even as a kid, was like, wow, everything is like a Hollywood set. It may look nice, but it's built to just be up there for a few years, to get knocked down again.
[00:12:51] Fawn: So nothing really lasts. 
[00:12:54] MATT: And yet when they build It's like a big box store for instance, it's built for that big box store and if somebody else wants to try and move into that space, it can't just be filled with any random thing. They can't divide it. They can't, etc. 
[00:13:11] Fawn: But you can say that about the East Coast too because you have these beautiful stone buildings.
[00:13:17] Fawn: True. Right? It's like how can you? How can you turn this into something else? Do you know what I'm saying? But they do figure it 
[00:13:24] MATT: out. That doesn't make sense. They do figure it out. We were in a building yesterday, and it's now a commercial space, and I get the feeling it was originally a home, a stately home.
[00:13:34] MATT: But like, the bathroom was hiding under the stairs. And I think the bathroom was hiding under the stairs because when the house was built, there was an outhouse. And so they, they found an empty, small space that they could turn into a room and turn it into the bathroom. 
[00:13:50] Fawn: And the thing is that building is still there.
[00:13:52] Fawn: Right. That building is from the 1800s. Could be, yes. I mean, most of the towns, if you travel around, , there were plaque saying established 1670 in some cases. Yeah, a lot 
[00:14:06] MATT: of the cases. Most of the cases it's, it's, it's later, but it's not, it's not the, the, the town I grew up in was founded in 1970, probably 1970, straight up.
[00:14:17] MATT: Exactly. Which is Wow. Which of course sounds like it was a while ago. to anybody from California, maybe, but not, it isn't, it's a flash in the pan, but there are towns like Los Angeles or Pasadena that were older, but they had more personality. 
[00:14:35] Fawn: All right, so how do we get past the introduction phase? How do we get past the nice How 
[00:14:43] MATT: do we get past nice and get 
[00:14:44] Fawn: into kind?
[00:14:45] Fawn: How's the niceties, the superficial niceties? Yeah. How can we be kinder? And that's difficult because we are all exhausted. Right. And maybe the East Coast because they're always rushing and running. And also the weather, like you're always having to do something because the shift in weather. from hot to cold, cold to hot, 
[00:15:10] Fawn: there's always something that needs to be done. And, you're working, trying to make a living at the same time. Right. So, there is no time for dilly dally, is that a word I can use? I don't know. I don't even know, is that a derogatory? We don't even know where that comes from, we have to look that one up. But there's no time for superficialness.
[00:15:30] Fawn: Like, you just get stuff done. Like, yeah, you look terrible. Are you cold? You look terrible. Have you eaten? Come here. Let me fix you something. Right. I just think that we are so stuck in that phase of wanting to make friends. And maybe we have the intros down.
[00:15:51] Fawn: Maybe we don't. Maybe we're still working on it. But let's just even forget that. Let's take a cue from the East Coast. And forget about the intros and go to kindness. And that kindness could be, Ooh, you spilled a drink. Let me not talk about the fact that you spilled your drink. Let me get you another drink while I'm patting you down and taking the stain away.
[00:16:16] Fawn: You know what I'm saying? 
[00:16:17] MATT: Yeah, let's look around and grab a napkin or a cloth to help you. Right, right. Rather than really dwelling on, Oh dear, you've spilled. I mean, okay, fine, yes. I think I realize 
[00:16:28] Fawn: that. You know, I found myself that since we've been traveling on the east coast, I've noticed this about myself that I have to fix is when we lived in Santa Monica, your boss came to our neighborhood.
[00:16:46] Fawn: And he was standing on the corner, I think he was waiting for you. And in our neighborhood in Santa Monica, if you drove out of the neighborhood, it would take forever to find a place to park when you came back. Because it's the beach town and everybody wants to be there.
[00:17:00] Fawn: So, finding, good luck finding a place to park when all the tourists are there. So, anyway. So you end up sometimes parking far away and walking home for a while like you have a long walk With lots of bags. Don't even get me started if you have to go the bathroom. One day I was coming home and I had so many grocery bags We had just gotten married, I think.
[00:17:25] Fawn: So now I'm like, you know. Shopping for two. Making things cozy. Well, actually, yeah. You know, like, actually cooking and stuff. So, lots of grocery bags. And they were so heavy. And I had walked, several blocks. But I finally reached our block. Like, the corner and the door was, just a few feet away.
[00:17:45] Fawn: And there is your old boss, your boss at the time, just standing there with his hands in his pocket, enjoying the sunshine. And he has the nerve to ask me, Do you need help? Do you need any help? And I remember, like, later I talked to you, I'm like, That guy is the biggest jerk. What the? What is that? Yeah, I need help, but if you're gonna ask me?
[00:18:08] Fawn: No, I don't need you. Get out of my face. , I was so angry, I still am, like, at that. Like... Do you need help? Obviously, dummy. Yeah, but if you're gonna ask, I just, I'm like, just get out of my face. I don't need you. You no good, inconsiderate dummy. Like, it means you really don't want to help, so you want the person to say no.
[00:18:34] Fawn: So you're like, transmitting the no response to me for me to say no. To you because you really don't want to go out of your way. You don't want to be bothered. You don't want to help Anyway, I was always so offended by that kind of behavior and just two weeks ago One of our really good friends on the East Coast Came out taking heavy heavy bags out of her trunk to go in the house And I stood there I said, can I help you?
[00:19:03] Fawn: And as soon as I said it, I'm like, oh, I've turned into that kind of person. Cause I also had stuff in my hands and she's, of course she said no. And I'm like, okay, and I felt relieved because I didn't want to help. Mm hmm. And then I stood there, and I'm like, oh, this is terrible. And I put my stuff down, and I ended up helping with the one last bag.
[00:19:27] Fawn: And it was heavy. Ha ha ha ha ha. No, I'm saying it was heavy because I felt bad. Oh, okay. Like, I should have helped right away. Mm hmm. What is wrong with me? What kind of laziness had taken over me? Someone who's pretty conscious about this kind of stuff. For me to act like you're, you're a dummy boss. Sorry, I don't like that guy.
[00:19:49] Fawn: Right? 
[00:19:50] MATT: Um, I can't say I was very pleased with him there at the end and for most of the middle too. 
[00:19:54] Fawn: So, so, thank goodness I caught that about myself and thank goodness now I'm thinking, Well, maybe I'm not kind and I really want to be kind. I want to get past the intro phase of friendship and be fully 
[00:20:11] MATT: And there you go, get past the intro phase.
[00:20:15] MATT: I think, okay, so I want to believe I do well on job interviews, which I seem to go on far too many of. And I think one of the reasons why I do well on job interviews is because I just let it all hang out. I mean, I literally approach an interview without any fear, without any expectation. You know, it's like, yeah, okay, I want to work at this company.
[00:20:38] MATT: Yeah, I think this company's doing good work, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. But I want to show them. I want to tell, I want to tell them and I want to see what I can do to show them who I am. Because they know who they are. And if I'm not a fit, I'm not a fit. And so it's kind of nice if you let yourself really hang out there.
[00:21:01] MATT: Because even if you bomb all the technical questions, which happens a lot as a computer programmer, they'll make allowances. If you fit the culture, like I always do well, I tend to do well on cultural interviews because everybody has certain beliefs, but I know that if I let it all hang out completely, first of all, it's a huge differentiator because nobody does because everybody wants to be, Oh, I'm smart and standoffish, which is weird, but, if I don't fit in, I don't fit in and they'll flag me for that right away.
[00:21:32] MATT: And there's a niceness to it. Thank you. There's a niceness to having that understanding that if I didn't make it to the next phase, that was probably the reason, not limitations on technical skills or anything else, because technical skills you can learn, but who you are is who you are. 
[00:21:50] Fawn: But most people don't hire based on who you are.
[00:21:54] MATT: Unless they really, really, really like you. And that's just it. If you, it's like when I let it all hang out, you either really, really, really like me or you really don't. 
[00:22:05] Fawn: And I think, just going back to the business part of it, I think people are in such state of survival that they're not thinking about people that they like, having a good fit with a company you want to hang out with.
[00:22:19] Fawn: When you're in survival mode, you want to get things done, put out fires, right? And that's So they're only going to think about tech, technical, and not realize how important the personal is. You'd rather deal with a jerk who can get the job done. 
[00:22:38] MATT: Oh, I don't know about that. I'm pretty, I'm pretty unforgiving when it comes to jerks, to be honest, myself.
[00:22:45] MATT: What do you mean? I don't have time. I, I only have time for people who want to elevate my skills and want to get to know me. Those are the 
[00:22:55] Fawn: people I have time for. No, I'm talking about companies, the heads, heads, major heads of companies that are looking to hire. 
[00:23:01] MATT: And, and that's just it. I think to me, if a company's looking to hire, it should be...
[00:23:06] MATT: They're looking to hire because they want to grow because they want to, and on some level if they're looking for someone to fix all of their problems as quickly and quietly as possible, well that's awesome when I come to them showing them who I am because they're not going to want me. So I won't get stuck in that predicament, frankly.
[00:23:26] Fawn: I think I'm getting lost. What I'm, what I'm saying is that they are in 
[00:23:33] MATT: fight mode. If they're in fight mode, fight or flight mode, if they're in survival 
[00:23:37] Fawn: mode. Don't want to work for them. That's true. That's true. But I'm I'm saying most of society is in survival mode 
[00:23:46] MATT: That's what's interesting I would say maybe that's something that in my mind at least kind of differentiates the nice from the kind people I think nice people are in survival mode they're trying to do too much in too little time and they don't have time to help and so they're able to justify their lack of kindness with, but I don't have time for that.
[00:24:07] MATT: I don't have 
[00:24:08] Fawn: time to take you to the airport. Yeah, it's all a facade, because you do, especially, and maybe this is why it makes sense on the West Coast, because everything is about appearance, much like the buildings I was talking about. Yeah, it looks like a mansion, but it's made out of cardboard, practically.
[00:24:25] Fawn: Like, I can kick it down if I had to, right? Right. So, you have to look good. Remember the term, and it was Billy Crystal's character. It's better to look good than to feel good. That was the motto. I think it was in the 1980s. It was a character Billy Crystal played, I think. Maybe it was in the 70s, but I would see it on reruns when I was a kid.
[00:24:49] Fawn: But there was this guy, played by Billy Crystal, and he would say, It's better to look good than to feel good. And I think... The show was called Soap or something? I'm not sure if that's what it is. Oh, I remember Soap. But, like, it's better, maybe it was from SNL. I don't remember, guys, but I do remember it was a saying, it's better to look good than to feel good.
[00:25:09] Fawn: And I feel like, yeah, you, you dress to impress for first impressions. 
[00:25:16] MATT: Yes. 
That's 
[00:25:17] Fawn: it. It's all about the first impression. And that's where I think everything gets stuck. And that's where our relationships are. That's why there's so much divorce. It's all about the first impression. We haven't thought fully, invested fully in the future.
[00:25:35] Fawn: And I think that's the, that's the problem with lots of corporations. That's the problem with the environment, everything. And that's the problem with relationships. You're not investing in the long term. 
[00:25:48] MATT: But no, I mean certainly talking about companies though. Companies are always, are only as successful as their last quarter. And that's the past. And that's like, so they, they chase the world in three month increments.
[00:25:59] MATT: Right. And what do you do when your company's ten years old? And that's very 
[00:26:02] Fawn: American, don't you think? I don't think that's a Chinese thing. I, I don't know, but... Is it a Japanese thing? It, 
[00:26:08] MATT: it feels like... I mean, think about... It feels 
[00:26:12] Fawn: really wrong. It does. I mean, look, there are, in France, olive oil companies, or in Greece, all of oil companies that are...
[00:26:23] Fawn: Way older than the United States of America. Like, olive oil companies that are 800 years family owned business. 800 years. Long term. Right. Again, what kind of west coast thing can you think of that's, that's like that? And I know it's, it's because, you know, when was California founded? Not that long ago.
[00:26:48] Fawn: It was close 
[00:26:49] MATT: to 1849. 
[00:26:52] Fawn: You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, they're still young. However, Everything just lasts for like, maybe just a few years. And it's recycled into something else. And are our friendships recycled 
[00:27:07] MATT: constantly? Because we're busy. We're too busy with the first, they call it the first 15, but like, you know, first impressions.
[00:27:16] MATT: Yeah, as a matter of fact, 
[00:27:19] Fawn: Disposable is what I was looking for. Disposable, like, remember the disposable cameras? Disposable everything. Like diapers. Everything is disposable. And I remember coming home, I came home one day, from work, crying. And I was crying so hard from like, just, the boss was so mean. The whole, it was so toxic, that job.
[00:27:46] Fawn: And, I came home, and this was Santa Monica, and it was my refuge, it was like the sanctuary, thank goodness, for Santa Monica. But I came home, and the landlord was there, the owner of the building, and he saw me crying. And again, I think, deep down, I think, in their history, they're from the East Coast, by the way, came to me, held me in his arms, Why are you crying?
[00:28:15] Fawn: And I could barely get a few words out, but it was obvious I told him, you know the job and he said Don't ever let anyone think Don't let anyone ever make you think that you're disposable You're not
[00:28:33] Fawn: But I think that's how we treat each other I think that's how we treat our friendships our marriages I think that's how we treat definitely People in the workplace. And everyone knows it. And that's why Americans work so hard. Because you're in desperate need of that paycheck. Desperate. You don't have time or money for a vacation.
[00:28:58] Fawn: If you do take it, your job is at risk. So you are feeling like just everything feels disposable. So how can you be kind in that kind of atmosphere?
[00:29:13] MATT: Right. It's all you can do to be nice. Because you're 
[00:29:17] Fawn: in survival mode. Because you are in survival mode. So, you're gonna, how many jobs did I have where they would say, You don't look happy. That means you're fired, by the way. You don't look happy. Because I, I couldn't, I couldn't lie and have my face seem totally happy when it was a toxic environment.
[00:29:39] Fawn: You could see it on my face. You better look good. You better not be five pounds overweight. You better have the best outfit. But really like what is the core of everything? What is, there's no core. It's just a facade. I'm sorry. No, that totally went totally negative. 
[00:30:06] MATT: It's interesting. I actually went to a, I saw an author talk recently.
[00:30:12] MATT: And this author is currently a West Coast author. He's a science fiction author and he's one of a few science fiction authors I actually like. I don't think I've ever mentioned him on the show, but anything is possible. You like his work. I like his work. Okay. So he shows up. Oh my God. So he has a social media presence.
[00:30:30] MATT: He has this, he has that. Everybody there was very excited to see him. And the whole thing. And he proceeded to go on autopilot. I mean, of course he read a chapter from his new book. That he's, you know, he's trying to sell. He's like, yeah, I want to sign your books and sell you. Books at $10 markup over the price at the bookstore, by the way,
[00:30:52] Fawn: Why? Because he had signed it. I 
[00:30:54] MATT: have no idea why, but it was . But anyways, that's beside the point. And usually an author will sign other books too, if you bring them. But anyways, I didn't have him sign my book be, I didn't buy a book and I didn't have him sign a book because it was like he was on autopilot.
[00:31:11] MATT: People asked him questions and it felt like he was quoting blog posts or he was quoting Twitter or X posts that he had 
[00:31:20] Fawn: made. Remember we used to call this phoning it in. He phoned it in. Do you guys know what phoning it in means? I think it's when we used to use the phone. No one uses the phone anymore.
[00:31:32] Fawn: What, what does it mean when you phone it in for other people in different countries? Can you explain phoning it in? 
[00:31:37] MATT: Phoning it in is just, you're not, you're not paying proper attention to it. You're not doing it the best that you can do it. You're doing it to do it. To get it over 
[00:31:49] Fawn: with. And I guess it's kind of like when Matt was saying it's on autopilot.
[00:31:54] Fawn: It's like, you're not conscious. You're not there. You're just repeating stuff. I 
[00:31:59] MATT: mean, some of the things Turns Afraid he had were brilliant, but he did not come up with those on the spot. Right. He was totally quoting himself. It was 
[00:32:10] Fawn: weird. It was just a script. Just reading a script without any... Emotion.
[00:32:15] Fawn: There's no attachment. 
[00:32:16] MATT: And I had wandered into this going, God, it would be great if I was the only person here, and we just, like, sat down and had a real conversation. 
[00:32:25] Fawn: But would he be any different? I mean, there are people, when you sit down with them, they're still going by their script. That's the only comfort that they know.
[00:32:35] Fawn: And again, it goes back to the intro thing. Right. Is that's where they're stuck. They don't know how to go past that. So there are some people... That you try to befriend, or like, even meet for coffee, or whatever, that you can't get past that. Right. So you have to really finesse your way through, to like, chisel through that huge wall, or whatever that is, to finally get at the core.
[00:32:59] Fawn: And the thing is that, most likely, people like that, when you do reach the core, you have to, you have to be... Ready for whatever that may bust out of there, right? It may be gases that are Noxious what's the word gases that are not? Okay, that may get noxious, you know Like something that's been in a tomb for so long Needed to come out right so what may come out initially when may not be pretty But you have to I think we have to allow, maybe this is where the kindness can come, you have to allow for that and still be loving about it.
[00:33:45] Fawn: Right. You know, all embracing of the person when that happens. But that's, again, that's because we're not used to it. We're not used to being real, we're not used to being completely authentic and open and, you know, this is what happens. And we're 
[00:34:02] MATT: not used to people around us wanting to really see us. 
[00:34:07] Fawn: Who has time?
[00:34:10] MATT: Hopefully that's a rhetorical question. What do you mean? Well, hopefully you're saying that in, uh, in a, uh, hmm. Uh oh, you caught me there. No, um, hopefully you're saying that as, you know, Speaking as the, most people in society and not yourself. 
[00:34:32] Fawn: Oh, I'm saying that about myself too. Okay. I have to be completely honest.
[00:34:36] Fawn: I don't, I feel like I've been falling down lately. just because I feel overwhelmed. A lot. But I'm noticing it in myself, I'm just being completely honest. Like I said, I'm like, oh my god, maybe I'm not kind. I thought I was. But I don't think so. I'm gonna work on it You have to use your muscles and pick up the heavy grocery bags for the other person 
[00:35:01] MATT: 
[00:35:01] MATT: And you have to put yourself in the headspace of I have time to do 
[00:35:05] Fawn: this Or just do it.
[00:35:08] Fawn: Just do it or just do it But sometimes that can get me Personally, I'll just speak for myself It can get me out of my body so if I'm not prepared to do something, that's when I end up falling down or breaking something. So I have to be fully in my body and comfortable about it. I can't just do something half assed because if I do something without full intention and pure love, it could come out, come across as angry and unappreciative, like the person will not feel.
[00:35:42] Fawn: Appreciated as you're changing their tire. Well, I don't know how to change the tire. No, I 
[00:35:48] MATT: know, I know. But I'm just what saying back to the original example of being kind, but not nice, but 
[00:35:52] Fawn: I think that's where the East Coast mentality comes from is like they are busy. They are also dealing with family on a whole other level, I think because I just feel like that kind of personality, that east coast personality.
[00:36:08] Fawn: takes care of community. So there's a lot that's on their plate already. So when there's something else that comes up, yeah, they're not going to be nice about it, but they know that they have to do it. Because that's who they are. You're there to help. You're there to support each other. And that's why, like, remember we would hear New Yorkers are, like, they're not gonna say hello to you or smile, but once you do meet them, they're the greatest friends. 
[00:36:39] Fawn: Once you get to know them. They are a friend.
[00:36:43] Fawn: Couldn't really say that about other people. Who are like, Hi! You know? Very superficial, but would they be a good friend? No. Maybe their motives are for other things like business. How can you help me succeed? As opposed to I genuinely want to be your friend. Fair enough.
[00:37:04] Fawn: Go through everything you I did! You did? I didn't hijack you this time? Nope, I'm good. Okay, well that's it. 
[00:37:13] MATT: So, I'm absolutely gonna work on being kinder. 
[00:37:16] Fawn: Me too, but that means I probably need more sleep. So I can be, I can be in my body and be present, notice things. Not sleepwalk through life.
[00:37:29] Fawn: Fair enough. Notice details. All right. Love you guys. Hope that helps. Have a beautiful every day Talk to you later. Be well. Bye. Bye. Bye