The Art of Integrity

The Art of Integrity
[00:00:00] FAWN: Welcome back everyone. Hello, hello, hello to whatever day or time or zone you're in. So I'm gonna say it. Good evening, good afternoon, good evening. Good afternoon. What is it? Good morning. What else is there? Hello.
[00:00:20] FAWN: Good night. Wait, I forgot Japanese. Uh, 
[00:00:24] MATT: good. Muy mushy. No, that's how you answer the phone. Ua. UA, maybe. How are you? I, I don't know. I think it's a greeting. Oh, it's a greeting of some kind. Is 
[00:00:33] FAWN: all I can tell. We're getting, tell Rusty honey. We need to start traveling again. This is terrible. I feel like I've lost my worldliness.
[00:00:40] FAWN: No. What? What's so funny? 
[00:00:43] MATT: Just. Where were we? I, where were you? We were in a complete other time zone 13 months ago. We were living in a complete other time zone, stuck 
[00:00:55] FAWN: in an apartment, 
[00:00:56] MATT: duh. Beside the point, we are in a completely different time zone. We're a completely, we're, we're in a completely different 
[00:01:02] FAWN: place now, so what It's still been in the United States.
[00:01:05] FAWN: We've moved a lot. 
[00:01:07] MATT: The US is a very interesting different place. Right. 
[00:01:12] FAWN: It's a big stretch of the continent. Yes. It's a big stretch of the Northern American continent. Absolutely. But anyway, I feel like, I don't know, I'm starting to get the, the feeling back, like I don't know anything. And so it's even hard to.
[00:01:30] FAWN: Operate a podcast because I, I'm starting to doubt myself. Like I don't know anything. I, I used to feel like, yes, I know this culture and that culture, but even my own background mm-hmm. Lately I've been feeling like I have, I have no business talking about it. I don't know. You know, like, you just feel like 
[00:01:50] MATT: you don't know anything anymore.
[00:01:51] MATT: Oh my goodness. Absolutely. Yeah. It's weird when all of a sudden you discover something that kinda shakes something that, you thought you knew for 
[00:01:59] FAWN: sure. So anyway, how was your ride today? You said something interesting re row about meeting people on the ride mm-hmm. That people are more open or something like that.
[00:02:08] FAWN: Yeah. What 
[00:02:09] MATT: happens, what you notice? Honestly, it boils down to the shared experience, the endorphin rush you get from exercising, and the fact that I always go into it, I'm asking you a question, and if you don't know the answer, that's fine, but I was riding on a trail. Oh my goodness.
[00:02:30] MATT: And I got lost a couple of times, but where I didn't get lost is where I asked somebody, which way was the trail, which way I should go. And it was really interesting because, the gentleman that, um, you know, I, I almost had to wave. It's almost like he didn't believe I was talking to him. He had headphones on and I was like, Hey, hey, hey.
[00:02:48] MATT: And when I asked him which way to go To stay on the bike trail. He was like, yeah, and if you take this bike trail, then you could, and he started like describing like, you're gonna go over a bridge and then you'll be in town and you can get coffee there. And it was like he was planning my social calendar.
[00:03:03] MATT: Aw. And it was very, very nice. And honestly, I wanna say a hundred percent of the people I said hi to, which is a hundred percent of the people. Mm-hmm. Acknowledged me at the very least, acknowledged me. 
[00:03:20] FAWN: I've been operating on a theory, not a theory even. I think it's the total truth is that, and, and it also, I'm about to say what that theory is in just a second, or the truth.
[00:03:32] FAWN: Let me just say it 'cause I'll forget it. The truth is that when you're face to face with people mm-hmm.
[00:03:39] FAWN: The love is there and all these things that divide us are, we're usually not there, right? The majority of people truly like each other, and I think that we've gotten so brainwashed that there's such division that. This side is evil. This side is evil. That side is terrible. This person is this. There's a label for everything.
[00:04:03] FAWN: Mm-hmm. And I think especially with kids now, they're so into labels and what defines them, and I think it's getting in the way of enjoying life. We're so into labeling one another and I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. So my plea today is that, We go against that. I mean, we've had certainly our fair share of arguments within our marriage 
[00:04:30] MATT: Oh dear.
[00:04:30] FAWN: Especially since 2016, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I became completely shocked, but not really. I was gonna say completely shocked by the news or whatever, was transpiring in politics, all of that. But at the same time, I wasn't. I wasn't shocked at all because I've been seeing it for a long, long time. I've been telling you, look, I'm feeling like this is happening to our society.
[00:04:57] FAWN: And you would say, no, no, no, it's never gonna get that bad 
[00:05:00] MATT: checks and balances.
[00:05:01] FAWN: Um, I'm like, uh, no, I'm, I'm not seeing that anymore. I'm telling you, I don't think it's gonna go in a good way anyway. And then when things would happen, you would try to have a positive attitude about things. And then I started labeling you as the enemy because you, all you were doing was trying to be positive and to have a better outlook and not such a, an angry point of view.
[00:05:28] FAWN: But I went to the angry mode and it was addictive. I couldn't get out of it. And the past year, I feel like I have to knock on wood. Uh, I feel like even though things are still crazy out in the world, I feel like I'm getting my sense of love back, love for humanity, and then seeing that the world, we can make the world truly, we can make the world a better place.
[00:05:56] FAWN: We can, and it starts with our own ecosystem. Our own sense of safety, our own sense of what we wanna create, really looking at one another and looking at one another without labels. I started to think about the whole, idea of integrity. Even when I hear the word integrity, I have that split feeling.
[00:06:18] FAWN: I, obviously I have integrity, but this person over here does not, you know what I'm saying? Total divisiveness, right? And so that's what I wanna talk about today a little bit, is that. When we think of integrity, when we think of integrity, we think of the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles, blah, blah, blah.
[00:06:41] FAWN: Right? But it also, like I said, tends to go towards the division.  " I have integrity. You don't,  I believe in such and such, and you don't. Therefore you don't have integrity. You are this and that creates a division."  looking at the true, true meaning a look deeper at the meaning of integrity.
[00:07:06] FAWN: And how the art of friendship plays a role in shaping our society. 
[00:07:11] MATT: Okay, 
[00:07:11] FAWN: so the other meaning the etymology of integrity is a state of being whole, undivided, a state of being whole and undivided.  The condition of being unified, unimpaired. the adjective form of integrity is integer, which drives me crazy because it leads me to.
[00:07:34] FAWN: The hardcore math that the kids are studying even from the beginning, like first grade, like what's an integer? Okay, it's a whole number. What's a whole 
[00:07:42] MATT: number? Is what they would ask. Right? Not what an what is an integer. Now for me, programming wise, oh, we have integer as a data type, but 
[00:07:49] FAWN: that's kind of beside point.
[00:07:50] FAWN: But like one and a half is not an integer.
[00:07:52] MATT: Nope. Sure not. 
[00:07:53] FAWN: So anyway, I saw the word integer. I'm like, oh, there it is again. Math has creeped its ugly head back into my reality. But the adjective form of integrity is integer, integral, complete, perfect, intact, untouched. Looking at those words I'm understanding math a little bit better because it's undivided. It is whole. But then every number, I don't know if you, if you really get into it, everything is never a whole one thing anyway. Right. Anyway, anyway. No. Anyway, let's not go there. 
[00:08:30] MATT: Fair enough. 
[00:08:30] FAWN: So in talking about our relationships talking about the art of integrity and how it is shaping our society mm-hmm.
[00:08:39] FAWN: And how we can change it to be in better shape. I just wanted to bring out one thing, one thing that I've talked about this entire time we talk about the art of friendship. Sometimes I think that there could be a, not, what do you call it? I don't wanna say an evil force, but what do you call it? Something that doesn't have your best interest right at heart.
[00:09:06] FAWN: At heart, right. For example, when I've told the story before, I'm sorry I'm repeating myself, but I remember when I got off of a photography project, I left Ethiopia. I was on a plane and this video came up on the airplane because basically everyone was flying out of the continent. Mm-hmm.
[00:09:29] FAWN: The African continent. And it said, thank you for visiting. We ask you, when you look back and you hear things on the news and you see certain countries being at war or there, there's definitely strife or there's conflict happening, we ask you to take a deeper look at what could really be happening and who's causing it, because in most cases it is not
[00:10:00] FAWN: who you think is fighting, who has started the fight,
[00:10:05] FAWN: it is usually a power that is trying to dismantle an area to weaken it so they can take power. So always take a deep look. Take a really good look at what could be happening behind the scenes. Now, I don't remember their exact words, but that's the message I got from 'em. Right. Yeah. And, and, and being an immigrant, I'm sorry, hold onto your thought.
[00:10:30] FAWN: Being an immigrant, you know, having to flee a country. I understand that. I'm like, yeah, exactly. I know what you're talking about. What were you gonna say? 
[00:10:42] MATT: It's, you know, I would say something like, when strange things happen, follow the money. I remember there would be occasions where things seemed backwards or upside down or hard to understand, and the easy answer is always, well, those people are just crazy.
[00:11:04] MATT: But if someone's willing to go as far as people are willing to go for their causes, there's. Not a sanity we necessarily understand, but there is a sanity 
[00:11:15] FAWN: there and people don't want us to understand, right. They just want us to think, oh, they're crazy. 
[00:11:21] MATT: Right. Or, or frankly, sometimes I don't wanna understand, or not human even what would take, what, you know, the lengths people sometimes would go to, but I, I emphasize follow the money because there's always somebody playing for 
[00:11:34] FAWN: gain.
[00:11:35] FAWN: I'm glad you brought this up because that's exactly where I was headed is who benefits from a divided community? First I think, okay, let's just take it to the nuclear level, like family, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Who promotes a divided nation? Who benefits from that?
[00:11:59] FAWN: When you are a divided family and you have to do everything on your own. When it's a situation which America is mm-hmm. Where both parents, let's say you have a family, right. A mother of father and kids. Mm-hmm. When both parents have to work and you know, even if you have health insurance here, you still can't afford really to go to the doctor.
[00:12:23] FAWN: I went to the doctor, I, I must read up enough courage to go to the doctor after a long time. Mm-hmm. Not going. Mm-hmm. You know, I always make sure the kids go, I make sure you go. I built up enough courage to go. I was having a panic attack. I, I, I was like, oh my God, I just wanna get outta here. Like whatever tests, whatever.
[00:12:46] FAWN: Let's just get it over with, and I have to wait and wait, fill out all these forms before they even say hello to me. Right. Then I get there, they're like, oh, you do know this is not, um, an exam situation. It's just basically a meet and greet. I'm like, how much money am I paying for this? For what to meet you?
[00:13:09] FAWN: Hello? Are you serious? And serious. Oh dear. And, you know, and then once I got over, like I started to cry. Mm-hmm. Because I, I was really scared to be there. Right. Because I've had terrible. Situation with doctors in America. I don't get treated the same way as people who are, who don't look like me. And so once I, I started talking like a human being and I started to say, well, this is bothering me, that's bothering me.
[00:13:40] FAWN: The doctor literally said, I don't, well, I don't have time right now. I don't have time. And the session was over. I'm like, what, what, what, what? 
[00:13:51] MATT: We gotta find, find you 
[00:13:52] FAWN: a new doctor. They're all like that, Matt. Anyway, but like, just looking at like how systems are so messed up. Anyway, I, I seriously got off track.
[00:14:03] FAWN: What I'm trying to say is the parents work. They both work. As soon as they have the baby, they put the baby in daycare. When the people get old, they get put into a daycare, right? Everybody gets separated and shifted into separate areas. We talked about this in the very beginning of our podcast, that even our houses are built in a way that is divisive.
[00:14:27] FAWN: You have your own room here. You have, you know, your own bed here. Mm-hmm. Everybody goes into their separate corners. We don't even see each other. Now we have always tried to create a household that isn't that way. But I mean, then people look at you weird when they come over, you know, like what? The kids don't have their own rooms like, huh?
[00:14:48] FAWN: Right. Um, so now they have their own rooms and guess what? We have to yell, like, hello, are you here? Can you come down? Please? It's a huge effort. To get us to come together. Division, it's the architecture of family. It has been made in such a way that everyone owns their own separate things, their own separate areas.
[00:15:13] FAWN: And even though you may live in a small area, you are separate. You don't hear each other. You don't see each other. Think about the neighborhoods, especially in America. Most people don't know their neighbors. They don't know their names. They won't even have eye 
[00:15:26] MATT: contact. Well, I'm gonna get a new neighbor next week anyways.
[00:15:28] FAWN: So like we, we just don't, they don't, 
[00:15:32] MATT: right. There's a cost and shuffle 
[00:15:33] FAWN: is what I mean. So who benefits from this kind of thing? We have a whole daycare system for various different age groups. We have a society of divided people. So schools benefit, right? Right. Schools and school districts.
[00:15:49] FAWN: Social institutions. 
[00:15:51] MATT: Social institutions, um, you 
[00:15:53] FAWN: know, uh, the auto industry, people don't take transportation together unless you're in some fantastic city, like New New York. But in most other places, you need to have your own car. You cannot function without a car. Right. Again, hello America. Right? I mean true.
[00:16:13] FAWN: That's why I said it's been so long since we traveled. I don't really know what's happening anymore in other places. Um, gun industry, because when people get scared, they buy guns. When people get depressed, they buy alcohol. You wanna forget. You want self-soothing, whatever form it takes, drugs, whatever.
[00:16:34] FAWN: Whoever builds on this fear that says, you are all alone. You are in it on your own. You better protect yourself. You're by yourself. They tend to make lots of money off of you also. Am I 
[00:16:47] MATT: wrong? And also circling back to self-sooth, soothing, we self-sooth by buying that really cool tchotchke or by getting really good food and eating tons of it.
[00:16:58] MATT: Mm-hmm. It doesn't involve getting to a spiritual place. It involves getting to a less rich place, spending money. 
[00:17:07] FAWN: Mm-hmm. Right. Again, you're losing your resources, yes. You're just spending it and certainly it's not cool to live together. It's, oh my gosh, even now, like even people who I really like and admire and love, The way they talk about our kids, like, oh, they're gonna be out soon.
[00:17:25] FAWN: I'm like, why would you say that? Why do they have to be out soon? I've made it a conscious effort, our entire parenthood to make sure that I don't speak that way. Right. That they're not out at age 18. You are not out on your own kid. We are family. This is our money. Wherever we're living, our home is your home.
[00:17:47] FAWN: This is our home together, you are not out on your own. We're gonna follow each other's dreams. We're gonna build each other's dreams together and this, this way of thinking like you're out on your own, this translates to children when, so when they have friends. Are you going to have that sense of family where you are in it together, where you soothe each other, where you help each other with your dreams?
[00:18:15] FAWN: With their dreams, make things happen with love? No, it's like you're on your own. Everybody's on their own. So what kind of society is that? 
[00:18:25] MATT: It's a society 
[00:18:26] MATT: with the advertisers are getting paid and the fat cats are getting fatter. 
[00:18:32] FAWN: So the truth is, yes, there's a loneliness epidemic.
[00:18:35] FAWN: Yeah. But the truth is that we're really not alone. And the truth is, if you get into a traffic jam or you're riding your bike, like how you said, chances are you're gonna meet people that are really awesome. Lovely, wonderful, talented, sweet, caring. They could be on the opposite side of your political beliefs, but we've been, especially in the last few years, we've been so bombarded by the ugly that we tend to go right for that.
[00:19:03] FAWN: Like they look like this, they must be of this political party, 
[00:19:07] MATT: Which is one of the things that happens during wartime with propaganda. 
[00:19:12] FAWN: I, that's all it is. I'm telling you, in 2016, I said, oh my God, this is propaganda. This is a way to have people fight against one another and make it okay because you're making this group over here seem like they're not human, right.
[00:19:29] FAWN: Less than human. So it's okay. Yeah. So it's okay if we do bad things to them 'cause they're not really human and looking at the language, like really listening to the language. It was saying exactly that. And that's why I was shocked because I have felt that for years, being an immigrant and not being Caucasian.
[00:19:49] FAWN: Mm-hmm. But to hear it announced like that at full, like full exposure, full, no hiding anymore. That was what was shocking. That was what was so scary. 'cause it seemed like, oh, well that was history. And honestly, world War II was not that long ago at all. Hitler was just here a few minutes ago. That's why I was scared.
[00:20:14] FAWN: So my plea today is to look at integrity in a different way. And not think of integrity, like my values are better than yours. If you're thinking this way, if you're not thinking like me politically, then you're evil. And believe me, it's a challenge for me to say that right now because I feel like,
[00:20:30] FAWN: I mean I, that's all I've been talking about for years and years is racism. 'cause that's what I've been seeing more and more of. Because I was targeted. So my thing is, let's look at how we can be whole and undivided as people, and let's take a real look at who is causing all this stirring, who's causing all this division and what's their purpose?
[00:20:55] FAWN: Because honestly, We have a lot of friends now, and if we ask their politics, I'm sure they would be opposite of ours, 
[00:21:02] MATT: some of them for sure.
[00:21:03] FAWN: But I love them. But that's, they're, they're watching out for our kids. We're right. We're enjoying each other's company in the neighborhood. Right. I feel taken care of.
[00:21:15] FAWN: And seen and heard, but if I saw these people on tv, I probably. My mind would be thinking, oh, they're the enemy. And that's just it. It's the, 
[00:21:25] MATT: it's the, um, stereotypicalisation of people. I just watched a TED Talk where the woman was describing how, here's all the boxes for the left. Here's all the boxes for the right.
[00:21:39] MATT: And then she happened to mention how she has friends who are n r a full supporters of the Second Amendment. And are full supporters of gay marriage. That's not peanut butter and chocolate. Those aren't going together or so we've been taught, but people have things that are important to them and and things that aren't important to them, and people are raised different ways.
[00:22:04] MATT: And to have just this series of absolutes like, you've signed up now, so now here's your platform. This is everything you're supposed to believe. Tricky, hard and honestly in America having a two party system, it becomes more and more untenable. But to kind of untangle ourselves from the two party system is challenging, is too hard 
[00:22:28] FAWN: on some level.
[00:22:29] FAWN: Well, I just think that we have to take care of one another, that we can't depend on any system. Because what that system does, it takes care of its own. Yes. Which is what the 1% of the 1% something like. So we need to take care of our own, which is each other, which is the whole art of friendship. Coming back to 
[00:22:51] MATT: that.
[00:22:51] MATT: Absolutely. Yeah. And circling back to just integrity, when I started looking into integrity, What I came across was, you know, the seven traits and one of those seven traits is respect be respectful. Be respectful.
[00:23:06] MATT: Be consistent, be respectful.
[00:23:08] FAWN: Bottom line, we have to remember that we're not alone, that we're not to be divided. When one person hurts, we all hurt. And that's it. Just like that public service announcement that I saw in the airplane, let's take a deeper look at that. So when there's something going on or when you feel fear, ask yourself, what just made me feel fear like that.
[00:23:32] FAWN: Take a step back and try to figure it out and get away from that. Most likely it'll be the news. Right. No argument there. Yeah. I mean, Matt's been forever telling me to stop watching the news, and I finally did, and I think that's what's helped me start feeling better is I stopped watching the news. I can't, I can't do it anymore.
[00:23:51] MATT: We still talk about the super important stuff that comes up, but not the infighting every 
[00:23:56] FAWN: day. The thing is, I was addicted to watching it because I needed to know what was happening as it was happening so that if I needed to do anything, before the mad rush of everybody else knowing, especially with the pandemic, like we had a sense of it way before it really hit.
[00:24:12] FAWN: right. So that, I think, compounded how we were feeling because then, I was like, well, let me pay closer attention to the news so that I know the next shoe that's going to drop, where it is, how it is, what do I need to do.
[00:24:27] FAWN: But if we're together as friends, you will never be homeless. You will never be alone. You'll always have someone to talk to. You'll always feel inspired to follow your dreams. You will be supported with your dreams. You'll have food, my friend. You'll always have a lovely cup of tea.
[00:24:45] FAWN: We can help each other. We all have talents. We can do each other favors. We can. Make the world the kind of world we want, a world that feels nourishing and safe and happy and exciting. Michelle, I cannot wait to see you in person over there, Martine. I can't wait to finally go out and do your wonderful adventures, and have some fun.
[00:25:12] FAWN: Another thing I'm going to ask us to do is try to make friends with people in other countries. It's easier to do that now. Find something you like on the internet. Get involved with, zoom meetings. If you're a writer, there are so many writers groups. From all over the world.
[00:25:28] FAWN: People get together and they take classes and then you start talking in the chats, that's how I've made some great friends that I have had now for the past few years, make friends in other countries. The world is a small town and everyone is your friend. So with that, I'm going to say, 
[00:25:46] FAWN: we're gonna talk to you in just a few days. Thank you for listening. We love you. Reach out to us. Go to our website, our Friendly World Podcast. Yes. Friendly world podcast.com. There's a little mic icon. If you just tap on that. You can leave us a voicemail. A voice message? Yes, a voice message.
[00:26:05] FAWN: You don't need an app, you don't need anything, but just please reach out to us. We would love to hear your voices that's it. We love you. Be well.