The Art of Joy – How to Marry Joy with Hard Times

The Art of Joy – How to Marry Joy with Hard Times
[00:00:00] Fawn: In big, bold, cursive writing, I wrote lay low on my calendar for today. For this whole weekend. Okay. 
[00:00:09] MATT: I, um, and not much to say about that other than Whoa. 
[00:00:13] Fawn: Okay. Then I, I had to, I didn't put anything else on the calendar, but lay low Fawn, fawn, Lay low, and all day yesterday and today I've been taking refuge in our basement studio.
[00:00:28] Fawn: I seriously feel like I need to collect my energy. It was a week, it was a week of lots of meetings, dealing with difficult people, very defensive and opinionated people, people who bulldozed over me, so at the risk of getting into any misunderstandings, quote unquote misunderstandings, I am laying low guys.
[00:00:54] Fawn: Thank you for joining me and Matt as we sit cozy. Underground in our studio. Because I'm still here. So, thank you. Thank you for being with us and joining us as we whisper some friendly reminders to each other. It was just, it was a hard week for me. How about for you?
[00:01:14] Fawn: I was on 
[00:01:14] MATT: vacation. Not too hard, other than thinking about oh dear, next week. But, whatever. 
[00:01:23] Fawn: For me, I had lots of meetings here and there, everywhere, and it was all dealing with people. Their beliefs, their stuff, their, triggers, and I was trying to communicate and say, hey, I, I need to express how I am feeling in this, so I need you to hear me because people don't, are not hearing me.
[00:01:50] Fawn: One of the people that I had to deal with this week was, Someone, who has a status in the community and, I guess they're also a psychologist.
[00:01:59] Fawn: They're, like, a spiritual leader in the community. Oh my god. So defensive. And I was telling them, verbatim, like, I need for you to understand my point of view. Mm-hmm. , I feel this way and I need you to hear me. And she kept interrupting me and saying, I need you to listen to me. I need you to, 'cause she was saying the opposite of what was actually what I was trying to say.
[00:02:29] Fawn: She wasn't hearing me. She was hearing the opposite of what I was saying. So it was, so that's why I have been laying low and I put misunderstandings in quotes Because I remember we had a friend who every time they said misunderstanding it meant a fight, right? So at the risk of running into any quote unquote miss, are you having a miss?
[00:02:53] Fawn: Are we gonna have a misunderstanding? You know, that means like full on fight, right? So at the risk of that here I am. I've just been underground. Totally. Like, under our house. In our studio. Just so, just so I'm, I'm, I'm collecting myself , and making sure that my words don't hurt or harm anyone else.
[00:03:19] Fawn: Right. So anyway, thanks guys for being here. Hello. Hello. 
[00:03:23] MATT: Hello, hello.
[00:03:27] Fawn: Okay, before we start this episode, I want to say a huge thanks to Wendy for listening and holding me yesterday. Thank you so much, Wendy. And also, oh my goodness, the biggest thank you
[00:03:49] Fawn: to our friend Heather who late got a phone call from me last night saying I'm scared I'm scared. Um, so our friend Heather Lawrence, thank you so much. She is amazing. She was on our podcast, what, two years ago? It's been almost two years since she's been on our podcast. For those of you who don't know Heather Lawrence, you can find her on Instagram. Heather the advisor. She is a brilliant human being.
[00:04:15] Fawn: She's a great... I don't know if psychic's the right word. Like, I don't know if the... These days, psychic is like, eugh, don't use that word. But she's highly gifted. Very psychic. Uh, that's what she does for a living. She's a healer. Thank you, Heather. I had the best talk with her. 
[00:04:33] Fawn: We spoke for an hour after which I felt so relieved and hopeful and so grateful. And because of our talk last night, , I laughed when I thought it was an impossibility. Is that a word? I thought it would be impossible, but we started laughing and after our call, I actually had A total restful sleep, which hardly ever happens for me.
[00:04:58] Fawn: Thank you. Thank you, guys. Like, seriously, you listening to us right now, we feel it, we started this podcast to make everyone feel better, but it makes us feel better because we can feel you listening, and we feel not alone. By talking to you from here. So grateful to you. Thank you so much for being here everybody.
[00:05:19] Fawn: So when things are bad, scary, harsh, is it possible to have joy? And I wanna say that when people will, want to experience joy, I think, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of people tend to feel like if I, if I feel joy, if I'm in the midst of joy while
[00:05:46] Fawn: also in the midst of hard things happening in the world. Right. That you're looked at as either lazy, because you're not doing anything. What are you doing being happy? Which, by the way, can we explore that? Is there a definition, is there a different definition for lazy, for not lazy. For lazy! For joy and happy, joy versus happiness, right?
[00:06:06] Fawn: Joy versus happiness. Well, if you look up the etymology of joy. It goes back to, I guess the, is it the Latin, the French, but it, it's Gaudere, G A U D E R E, which means to rejoice. Whereas if you break happiness down, H A P P is actually luck, it has to do with luck. So I don't know if that's, we can explore that later, but, but like I was saying, I think people are afraid to experience joy because it means you're either lazy or You're apathetic, like you don't care, or you're not serious, like you're 
[00:06:46] MATT: not a serious person.
[00:06:47] MATT: Right, you're, you're not paying 
[00:06:48] Fawn: attention. Right, or if like, let's say someone passes away and you're still experiencing joy at the same time there's grief. Like, wow, you're so cold hearted, like, you just look like a bad person. Right, and disrespectful. Right, exactly, yes. Or, like, maybe if you're joyful at work, maybe you're not working hard enough.
[00:07:12] Fawn: You know what I'm saying? You enjoy it here? Oh dear. But do you know what I'm saying? Maybe because you're in a joyful mood or you're joyful, it means You're just not working hard enough. You just don't get it. You're missing something. You should be sweating. Like, you should be serious and sweaty. Somehow.
[00:07:31] Fawn: You know what I'm saying? Either emotionally or physically even. So, why should we carry our life in a burdensome way? Is burdensome a word, by the way? It is today. I'm just making up words like I normally do. Bear with me. So, is it possible for joy and grief to coexist? Could joy and grief like Be opposite personalities , like, you know how we have friends like us, we're total opposites, , right?
[00:08:02] Fawn: Like, you know, I mean, we're not totally 
[00:08:02] MATT: opposite, but we are 
[00:08:03] Fawn: close. We are, what's another word for opposites. Like friends that are totally different from one another. They can coexist that through their different personalities create a healthy way of living life. Different perspectives, like the yin and yang, together, existing.
[00:08:19] Fawn: Can they be friends? Can joy and grief be friends at the same time? That's been my thought for the week. Because as I was going through the thick of things, I'm like, I wish I could just be joyful. I wish I could have a good laugh. And like I was saying last night with Heather, we were discussing ,some crazy stuff, and then we started laughing.
[00:08:40] Fawn: It just felt so much better and it led me to get through, what I was experiencing and to get a different perspective and then to just feel better because if there's no point in just feeling terrible, what good is that going to do? Do you know what I'm saying? I do. So how do we marry joy with hard times. Right. Any thoughts? 
[00:09:05] MATT: In my mind, it's almost like we need to start with really defining away what happiness versus joy really is. And to me, happiness is an external thing. Mm. And joy is an internal thing. 
[00:09:22] Fawn: Exactly. But couldn't you really say that about either one? Like, I can say, well, joy is exterior and happiness comes from within.
[00:09:29] MATT: Joy tends to get thrown around in religious contexts. 
[00:09:33] Fawn: That's true. Why is that? Internal. 
[00:09:35] MATT: It's true. Internal. 
[00:09:37] MATT: 
[00:09:37] MATT: I have the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart. That's one of those, like, silly songs that you learn to sing. I learn to sing anyways.
[00:09:45] MATT: But to me, it's an internal process. Perhaps we should even go not further back, but step back to where does everybody really encounter the word joy you encounter in a church? Yes. You encountered inside of the word enjoy. Yes. But one of the first places I think most people, certainly in America, I experienced the word joy was "The Joy of Cooking", which was a book. It's a cookbook. Julia Child read it and loved it. It's how she learned how to initially cook. And as it turns out, the joy of cooking has a strange history. It turns out the woman who wrote the joy of cooking wrote it.
[00:10:26] MATT: Her children encouraged her to write it as she was grieving for the death of her husband. Are you serious? I am serious. Wow, I didn't know that. So welcome to why perhaps, certainly as Americans, we might feel there isn't a tie between joy and grief. 
[00:10:44] Fawn: And it's also going back to the definition. Rejoice, to rejoice, comes from rejoice.
[00:10:53] Fawn: Coming together, right? What does rejoice mean? To rejoice in something. To come together. You're not separate. So why should we separate it from the rest of life? Right. Why should we separate joy? 
[00:11:05] MATT: Yes. 
[00:11:06] Fawn: Why should we? And why, what made us feel like we had to? What happened? Yeah, I 
[00:11:11] MATT: know. Exactly. What did? It's because everybody wants, everybody's telling you, happiness feels, and again, I'm delineating happiness and joy.
[00:11:23] MATT: But happiness is like, oh, you're happy, oh boy. But it's fleeting. Happiness is typically fleeting. Whereas, for me, joy is an internal process as part of perhaps your spiritual discipline. You carry that with you everywhere you go. You can't escape it. It is part of your DNA. It's part of who you are. 
[00:11:49] Fawn: Wow.
[00:11:49] Fawn: Maybe we should say joyful birthday or joyful Thanksgiving. 
[00:11:55] MATT: But those are moments in time. Those aren't... Something you carry with you. It's not part of your 
[00:12:03] Fawn: DNA. You mean the holidays? Yeah. Unless you're like me. Every day is Thanksgiving. You know, like every day I'm like, let's cook something. If we're happy or sad or scared.
[00:12:17] Fawn: Let's cook something. Let's bake something. Can we bake some cookies? And the answer to that is 
[00:12:22] MATT: always 
[00:12:22] Fawn: yes. Yes. 
[00:12:25] MATT: Does anybody want dessert? Hmm, let me think. Yes. 
[00:12:30] Fawn: Don't freak out out there. Our desserts are healthy. Ish. They are healthy.
[00:12:38] Fawn: We're vegans. Crazy vegans. And hardly ever sugar. No sugar. 
[00:12:43] MATT: Enjoy it. Don't, don't feel the need to defend it. You're defending it. I am. You are. 
[00:12:48] Fawn: Well, I feel guilty because how, how, how I was raised like Ugh, my family. 
[00:12:57] MATT: How are you? Period. Done. Full stop. One of the things I wanted to bring up but it's your story, not my story.
[00:13:05] MATT: What do you mean? Hold on. Something I wanted to bring up that's my story, that's your story, not my story, that you told me that I kind of try and walk with too. Was you talked about how it was like a Tuesday at like noon? And one of your neighbors ordered a pizza and had it delivered. Whereas, like, you would think normally, like, getting a pizza delivered is, like, a Friday night, Saturday, Sunday, or evening thing.
[00:13:33] Fawn: Mm hmm. When did I tell you this? I don't remember. I don't even remember this story. What happened to her? 
[00:13:37] MATT: She just had a pizza delivered. It wasn't a big 
[00:13:39] Fawn: deal. Are you sure this was me and not another girlfriend of yours from another time? Could have been, but I don't think so. Honey, I don't think that was me.
[00:13:45] Fawn: It was you? Who was it? It was not me. I don't remember. I don't know. It's living in Santa Monica. 
[00:13:51] MATT: I don't remember. But it was just during the week and, you know, she had a pizza delivered because why not? Because why not? And that's just it. And again, another story, which is again, yours to tell and not mine, was how you would be hanging out with your little boyfriend, your boyfriend, um, during the week, during the day, and you would be having fun and you would almost feel a little guilty because of it.
[00:14:22] Fawn: That wasn't just It wasn't my boy they were friends, honey. That was not my not at the time, anyway. Mm hmm. Not we were never boyfriend girlfriend. Da da da da. No, but that was our whole That was our whole group in Santa Monica. It was, yeah, none of us had Nine to five. We, none of us, none of us lived the nine.
[00:14:43] Fawn: Why are you laughing? 
[00:14:44] MATT: I can't even say it. 'cause it feels like you're about to defend it. 
[00:14:47] Fawn: Yeah, I had to because we didn't have nine to five jobs. So what? Doesn't matter. Just 
[00:14:51] MATT: enjoy 
[00:14:51] Fawn: yourself. But people looked at us like we were a bunch of like bums, you know? I'm sorry, that's a terrible thing to say, but people looked at us like we just never worked.
[00:15:01] Fawn: That we, we weren't serious. Yeah. Hello? Yeah, it looked like we were just always on vacation, but we just had a different lifestyle. What a wonderful 
[00:15:11] MATT: world it would be if we could all be like we were on vacation all the time. 
[00:15:16] Fawn: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly! Oh my god! We get so stuck in a grind and expectations and...
[00:15:32] Fawn: Dealing with people's stuff like I had to this week. It was 
[00:15:36] MATT: unbearable. And this is why they try and teach us stupid little tricks like, If you commute, you should try and go a different way every single day. 
[00:15:46] Fawn: Well, I say that. You guys, I never take the quick way. I always take the pretty way. 
[00:15:51] MATT: See, but that's just it.
[00:15:52] MATT: Always taking the pretty way isn't doing what I just said, which was try and go to work a different way every day. Yeah, 
[00:15:58] Fawn: but I want the prettiest way. It doesn't mean I'm going to go the same way. But I'm not going to hop on the freeway to just get from point A to B. No thank you. I don't like driving fast, first of all.
[00:16:10] Fawn: But 
[00:16:10] MATT: why do that? Why take the prettiest way? 
[00:16:14] Fawn: Because it calms me down. Driving stresses me out. And so the prettiest way is usually the slowest way. And I prefer to go slow. And it feels safer. And I'm usually around trees and water. And 
[00:16:30] MATT: one of the reasons, one of the ways to increase joy in your life is to be in nature.
[00:16:36] MATT: Yeah. See, it's right there in my notes.
[00:16:41] MATT: Ha ha ha ha ha! 
[00:16:43] Fawn: Yeah. 
[00:16:45] MATT: Yeah. And, and that's just it. Like, when I was in college, UC Santa Cruz, we would go banana slugs. The whole back area was woods. And I would try and take a walk in the woods as often as humanly possible. Because it did calm me down and because it was, it was good. And I knew this inherently.
[00:17:02] MATT: I knew this in my cells. 
[00:17:04] Fawn: Yeah. And that's why I say, like, just looking around, the neighborhoods that are dangerous don't have trees. Not all, not all neighborhoods, but you know what I'm saying. There seems to be more chaos and anger where it's just concrete and no trees, no nature. And I would say you would probably say that about countries too, right?
[00:17:28] Fawn: Countries that have more lush, like, nature that's prominent tends to be more peaceful. I don't know, unless some crazy person comes and starts bombing the place, so never mind, 
[00:17:41] MATT: never mind. It's a tricky thing, we can only talk about it from our perspective. 
[00:17:46] Fawn: Yeah, never 
[00:17:47] MATT: mind, never mind. But they do connect being in nature with joy.
[00:17:50] MATT: they also do connect, and this again I think for me certainly is part of being in nature. When I'm in nature, it's like I'm open to nature showing me wonder. Mm hmm. And so in that act, in that almost act of faith, almost, if you want to take it into a religious context, I allow the world to show me something cool, something wonderful, something fun.
[00:18:19] MATT: Yeah. 
[00:18:19] Fawn: And you know, 
[00:18:20] MATT: sometimes, yeah, I like going for right early in the morning and depending on what time it is, sometimes I scare all the bunnies. , right. I did that at Colorado, 
[00:18:28] Fawn: or the little chipmunk that keeps showing up at our front door. . Oh my goodness. That devil chipmunk guys, there's a chipmunk. I can see where the cartoons come from.
[00:18:37] Fawn: They're so mischievous they're very loud, too, they're funny. They're crazy, these chipmunks. It's good to look at that. like last week we were talking about starlings and murmurs and how you tend to, flow together.
[00:18:53] Fawn: Sometimes you act as one brain and you go from here to there. And sometimes you really have to look out for that one person that could take you the wrong way. That can misguide you, that can mess you up, right? So you have to pay attention to that. And boy, I had a few of them this week, you guys.
[00:19:12] Fawn: God! It was nuts. Like, it was really hard to remember to get back to the joy. And sometimes you just have to take a little joy and bring it in with you when you go underground. Like when you're laying low. Remember the story of Martha Stewart, when 9 11 happened in the United States? Everybody was freaking out, I watched this interview with Martha Stewart, and they're like, Martha, what should we do?
[00:19:39] Fawn: We're all scared. Like, what do we do? What do you do? She's like, well, no matter what's happening on the outside, bring something beautiful in. So maybe it's a flower, maybe it's one flower. You put in some water and put it on your table. That will bring you joy. That will bring you beauty. Surround yourself with beauty in any way you can.
[00:20:02] Fawn: And that will change things; it brings joy. True. True. It brings forth an internalization of wonder and or the other cousin to joy is 
[00:20:15] Fawn: gratitude because looking at a flower, 
[00:20:17] Fawn: they're cousins?
[00:20:18] Fawn: Yeah, they are cousins. They're cousins. It's they're related is all that saying it's cousin means is just just that they're related Your joy and your gratitude are tied together.
[00:20:32] Fawn: The amount of one is closely tied to the amount of the other so the more grateful you feel the more joy you typically feel so the key to The art of joy is gratitude. 
[00:20:44] Fawn: Which, yes, they are very closely tied because, if you feel gratitude and you, if you feel gratitude and you feel joy, because joy again is connected as well.
[00:20:56] Fawn: I mean, I'm sorry, if you feel gratitude and you feel wonder. Mm hmm. Because these things are all tied, then you're much more likely to feel joy. 
[00:21:08] Fawn: So is it okay that... I had to completely be away from people. 
[00:21:12] Fawn: Sometimes, yes.
[00:21:14] Fawn: Like this weekend, to lay low, to somehow get my joy back. 
[00:21:18] MATT: Surgeon's law, 90 percent of anything sucks, so.
[00:21:22] MATT: What do you mean? Well In this case, what do you mean? 
[00:21:25] MATT: Uh, 90 percent of people suck. 
[00:21:27] MATT: Oh my god, that's the opposite of our The Art of Friendship podcast.
[00:21:35] MATT: But, I mean. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. 
[00:21:39] MATT: But that's 
[00:21:40] MATT: just it. This is all, I think, relative to you. So 90 percent of music sucks. Well, guess what? It's because you don't enjoy, like I don't enjoy jazz, you know, oh dear, trouble, trouble. But I don't. And I just don't. And so, you know, that's, that's part of the 90 percent of music that I don't like.
[00:21:59] Fawn: Well, thinking about the week the interactions that I had. The interactions were filled with conflict, you know, and And nobody enjoys that. Nobody enjoys that. And it was so weird because I was seeking Acceptance, I was seeking guidance and I was just getting, not that, I was getting defensiveness, because I think that's what's going on in the world right now, there's so much of it that we're not able to hear what the other person is really saying, and I think that if you're saying A, B, C, the other person is saying, well, X, Y, Z, How do I?
[00:22:42] Fawn: Right. And 
[00:22:43] MATT: they're either saying X, Y, Z to prove their own point because they want to bring you around to their way of thinking or they're saying X, Y, and Z as a way of completely deflating your ABC. 
[00:22:54] Fawn: Okay, we're talking in code because I'm trying to respect the privacy of our kids right now so I can't tell you like what was happening and what was said.
[00:23:03] Fawn: Just, for the sake of privacy, just, just bear with us. I'm trying to, how do we explain what happened without actually saying it? We can't. But it's like, well, can you describe the pendulum effect that you were telling me about, that society is one way, or acts one way, and then, as it corrects itself to, better respect the people that were not respected before, Right.
[00:23:28] Fawn: the pendulum will swing the other way. To the extreme, where you have to really go out of your way, and you should, to honor and respect this group of people, right? But if you're one who's already been respecting that group, and you're trying to say, hey, um, in the midst of while all this is happening, this also is happening, and, you guys are hurting me over here, like I'm being hurt.
[00:23:58] Fawn: Also, I need help. Help. Like, I got beaten up somehow. Like, help me. Um, they look at that and just come at me with, Well, don't you know that this is happening in the world? I'm like, bitch, I just, oops, sorry. I'm like, I'm the one who's been fighting for all of this this whole time. I'm the one who's been on the side of this this whole time.
[00:24:29] Fawn: Oh my god. Yet, I'm looked at as the bad guy, like the opposite of what I'm... What I'm about, and it's because the pendulum just swings the other way. How can we explain this? Can you, can you explain your pendulum theory without getting into politics? Yeah, 
[00:24:47] MATT: unfortunately it's really hard not to get into politics on it, 
[00:24:50] Fawn: but...
[00:24:50] Fawn: Is there a way we can give an example that's benign? 
[00:24:53] MATT: Oh my goodness, I'm just trying to 
[00:24:55] Fawn: think. Just bear with us. Just, again, for the privacy of little ones, we can't, I don't, I don't want to say it right now. It's just a pendulum effect like it's it just swings until it gets back to normal things can be extreme on either side 
[00:25:14] MATT: But the key to me of the pendulum effect is so like, you know, I wish I'd come for the example is my 
[00:25:24] Fawn: Well, let's talk about diet in terms of diet, oh, that's not a bad okay like People will stop eating carbs altogether.
[00:25:33] Fawn: Right, 
[00:25:33] MATT: and that is an example of the pendulum now swinging against carbs. And then at some point, and so it's, everybody's like, No carbs, no carbs, no carbs. And you're, you're the devil and carbs are the devil. 
[00:25:44] Fawn: But carbs are also, what, potatoes? Like, things that 
[00:25:47] MATT: you need to eat. And hold on, and then the pendulum swings back, and then the, and then the quote unquote other side starts making the excellent point of, yes, but...
[00:25:57] MATT: Carbs are the fuel for your body. You need carbs. You need carbs maybe in the morning. And that's an example of the pendulum swing swinging back. And then the pendulum swings to the other side again, where people again, maybe reiterate or double down or cite new studies, which tell you how bad carbs are for you.
[00:26:16] MATT: And then eventually the pendulum settles somewhere in the middle where. Some people are, it's no longer the carbs are the enemy. It's just carbs are something that you need to pay attention to. Like everything else you should be paying attention to in your diet, which is the, which is the simple message that should have been thrown out there right at the beginning, but nobody would have heard it if the pendulum hadn't have swung.
[00:26:39] MATT: Um, we couldn't have gotten to that point where, you know, understanding what carbs really 
[00:26:44] Fawn: are. It should have been balanced all 
[00:26:46] MATT: along. It should have been balanced all along, but because it wasn't, we need, or society then provides, zeitgeist maybe just provides this kind of hard lesson one way and then a swing back and then a swing the other way and a swing back until it eventually lands somewhere in the middle.
[00:27:04] MATT: Right. And, we're in this space, I think, with a lot of things, certainly in America. With everything. It, it, it feels like everything, but it's not everything, but it, it feels like it. It feels like 
[00:27:15] Fawn: everything. It feels like it. There's such division. There's so 
[00:27:19] MATT: many lines in the sand to be 
[00:27:20] Fawn: drawn. Oh my gosh.
[00:27:22] Fawn: Everything. 
[00:27:23] MATT: It feels like. let people be people. No. Because we feel strongly, and we feel strongly in, you know, wanting to limit things for people 
[00:27:31] Fawn: ourselves. It's like you can't even have, a normal conversation. You can't just be without that thing, political, whatever thing, for people to, like, stomp you on with, like, to bulldoze over you.
[00:27:45] Fawn: Like, oh my god, like, can we just have a human interaction? Like, can you just... And I, oh, I don't know. I don't know. It was just so unbelievably confusing this week for me. That's why I had to lay low. I, I had to. I had to just get away from everything and make no decisions until tomorrow. So my decision was to just disappear for a little bit.
[00:28:11] Fawn: Until I'm calm, and I have my stuff 
[00:28:15] MATT: together. And sometimes it's very important to come back to center. To remember. For me, I always call it remembering who I am. Mm hmm. And remembering my strengths. And you may consider it more about grounding, and more about just, gathering yourself that way. 
[00:28:32] Fawn: And also giving myself time to wash off the filth that was thrown on me.
[00:28:37] Fawn: True. To heal from the battering I felt like I got that I didn't deserve, Or like, I wanted to fight and I don't want to fight because it won't be heard. What I need to accomplish won't be accomplished if I get into a fight. In any kind of a way. I'm not talking about a physical fight.
[00:28:57] Fawn: I'm just talking the conflict. So anyway guys, I hope that helps. I hope that was not too, um, What's the word? Not mysterious, but like too... Circumspect. There's another word I was thinking. Like, having it's, it was all in code. I don't know. I don't know. 
[00:29:16] MATT: Spend some time in nature. Embrace some gratitude.
[00:29:19] MATT: Embrace some wonder and feel more joy
[00:29:21] Fawn:  and it's okay, actually, it's more than okay. We should feel joy even in the midst of grief. It's okay. You need to. You need to experience joy throughout it all. Try to encourage the friendship of joy with hardship. Sometimes life can seem hard. Lots of grief sometimes.
[00:29:44] Fawn: Mm hmm. But. Try to marry joy with it. Try to bring in joy into the friendship. And if you think about it, like when I look at some people that we know that are really going through it, and yet they're laughing, or they're humming as they're cooking, or they're creating music, singing, and laughing, despite being so torn down in society.
[00:30:06] Fawn: They're winning. Let's win. You know what I'm saying? ? I do. It's like thumbing your nose. Mm-hmm. at, at the bad stuff and saying, you can't touch me. Right. Because this is my life and I'm going to enjoy it. I'm going to rejoice in my beautiful life. Thank you. That's it. We love you. Thank you so much for listening, you guys.
[00:30:28] Fawn: I hope that wasn't cryptic! That was the word I was looking for, cryptic. All right, guys. Love you. Have a beautiful every day. Have a joyful every day. Talk to you in a few days. Be well. Bye.