The Art of Vulnerability

The Art of Vulnerability - TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] FAWN: Welcome back, beautiful friends.
[00:00:03] MATT: Hello . 
[00:00:05] FAWN: Every time. Every time. . 
[00:00:08] MATT: Hello. 
[00:00:09] FAWN: Welcome back everybody. You know, lately I've really been into defining friendship. Like, what is it? We started with Muhammad Ali so here's another my version, my own definition. . I'll do that every week probably. Okay.
[00:00:27] FAWN: It's a combination of generosity and intimacy, that could be one explanation of what friendship is. How do you show up? How do you think you show up In every relationship there are friendship relationships, love relationships, which is actually friendship too. I love. I love, love, love you guys.
[00:00:49] FAWN: You know, it's not sexual , but it's still a love relationship. If you go to our website, there's "The Ikigai of Friendship" workbook that I have for you guys. So go to our website, our friendly world podcast.com. It's free, it has my paintings on it. You can print it out and fill it out.
[00:01:09] FAWN: It's like your own personal workbook on developing what you want out of life, like what kind of relationships, what kind of friendships you want in your life, taking everything and realizing what you have and what it's all about. Putting it all together in concrete form.
[00:01:27] FAWN: You know what I'm saying? Yes. You're just staring at me. Okay. So how do we show up? How do we show up in every relationship and what value do we offer? basically, I mean, this sounds kind of superficial because you know, we always tell you about the number one friend, number two friend and number three friend based on Aristotle's Nichomachian Ethics. However, it is good to be one of those friends all the time I mean, we all go through our ups and downs, but being the kind of person people like to hang out with basically.
[00:02:03] FAWN: Right, right. That's one of our goals. Being thoughtful on how you make another person feel. If someone is seeking those two things out in you, and that's it, that's not the true friend. However, they are important. So if a person is only hanging out with you because of how you make them feel and, they're hanging out with you because of what they're getting from you, that is not true friendship. But they are valid qualities. There are valid things in a friendship. Based on those two things. You're not going to have that true, true friend. That's not the meaning of the true friend. . But those are two valid qualities.
[00:02:51] FAWN: Well, I 
[00:02:51] MATT: I think that sometimes on your way to the true friend, you pass through these other levels too. You know? That's fine. You're friends with somebody because they can get you something or, and then that gradually develops into something deeper.
[00:03:07] FAWN: That's it. That's the thought. Okay. Um, alright, so I'm moving on. . Hi. You know what? I'm having trouble concentrating. What did you say? . 
[00:03:20] MATT: Oh dear. 
[00:03:21] FAWN: Sorry. 
[00:03:21] MATT: I said sometimes you, you pass through these levels of friendship on your way to a true friendship. Yeah. 
[00:03:27] FAWN: Yeah. That's true. I remember I told you the, okay. We, Dr. Kott, who was our dentist for our kids, When we first moved to this one area, he was like, how? How is it? Because he knew about our whole friendship thing, and I'm like, yeah. You know. Hmm. He said something very interesting. He said, there are transition friends. There are friends who meet you when you first come to a place.
[00:03:56] FAWN: They're not necessarily going to be your forever friends, but they welcome you in, and that's their job. and then they let you go  in some manner. Right? You like, you, you go in different directions, but they're like, I forgot the term he used for it, but like they basically are your starter friends.
[00:04:16] FAWN: they welcome you in. They're like greeters. Mm-hmm. , they're greeters in your life, right? And then you both move on Well, yeah. 
[00:04:22] MATT: Oftentimes like when you start to get to know somebody, you think you have a lot in common with them and then you have zip. and, and maybe even you have diametrically opposed views on things, which is not, which makes it so you can't be 
[00:04:35] MATT: friends.
[00:04:35] FAWN: Or in my case, a lot of the times I'm like a. Dog who's like, oh, I'll jump on you and like lick your face and say I love you so much. You know? Cause I fall in love so easily. You know, I love people mostly. And then there have been so many times where we've met someone, I'm like, yay. And we're both talking.
[00:04:59] FAWN: and they're sharing things. And I'm sharing things and it's a rapid fire, like total, like fast every, everything is being said fast and we think we have so much in common and it's happened so many times where Matt will like grab my arm a little bit and he's like, honey, I don't think you're talking about the same thing.
[00:05:18] FAWN: and I'm like, oh, oh, , but I'm row, but I'm still, you can't stop me. So I keep going, right? Mm-hmm. . And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the person's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're totally talking about opposite viewpoints and the other, each person is thinking that they're thinking like them. So like, for example, I don't know when was the last time this happened?
[00:05:42] FAWN: I, I'm more careful now. Um, but. I don't know. What was it? It could have been politics or something. Right. Where was, where was I? Where was we? Where was we? We were, one of the big times that happened I think was, was in Washington State, and this was when we were developing the whole friendship concept and we were talking to a lot of people.
[00:06:04] FAWN: We met some woman and she was talking and she was in op, in opposition to everything I stood for, right? Whether it's talking about human rights, Everything. But I thought she was like me and I'm like, oh my God, we have so much in common. Oh my God. Oh my God. And she thought the same thing. And you were like, uh, you were watching and listening and you were like, honey, you, you kept whispering Honey.
[00:06:34] FAWN: We're not talking about the same thing. We're not, you said something like that, . And part of my spirit said Uhoh, but the other one was nonstop. Like I was on the train to like Love Island, like I found my best friend. Right? I'm not gonna let it go until the end of the conversation I was like, oh man.
[00:06:56] FAWN: And I think the other person came to the same conclusion at the same time and we parted ways. So why am I saying this
[00:07:03] FAWN: But whatever. So anyway, getting 
[00:07:08] FAWN: what, what I gonna say? 
[00:07:09] MATT: No, we were talking about the level one, level two friends. And don't discredit that. Don't say that that's not necessarily a friendship. Because sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. 
[00:07:18] MATT: But sometimes it is.
[00:07:19] FAWN: It is. And the whole point to remember is the lifelong true friend, forever friend is what we're talking about.
[00:07:26] MATT: Well, that's the ultimate goal. 
[00:07:27] FAWN: That's our ultimate goal. That's our true art of friendship right there. But today we're, trying to honor those other two aspects of friendship that are more superficial. Right. So I'm trying to bring some importance to it also, cuz I've always dissed it out
[00:07:46] FAWN: I've always been like, that's not the true friend. 
[00:07:50] MATT: That's 
[00:07:50] MATT: not the true with 
[00:07:52] MATT: the air quotes. Yes. 
[00:07:53] MATT: So like, don't even 
[00:07:54] FAWN: bother. So what I'm saying is, no, have fun, but it's not, you're true love, 
[00:08:01] MATT: right? You're dating, you're 
[00:08:02] MATT: not committing. 
[00:08:03] FAWN: Yeah. Just have a good time , but just know that that's what it is so you don't get your feelings hurt later.
[00:08:10] MATT: Right
[00:08:10] FAWN: this goes in business. This goes in love relationships, and this goes in the art of friendship. Same thing. And I guess that's how business operates, is what are you bringing to the table? That's the bottom line. What are you bringing to the table? Whereas the number three friend is, look, I just love you regardless of what you do or don't do.
[00:08:36] FAWN: That's it. I love you. as a human person, I, I love you as a creature. I, I love you as a living being, no judgment, no expectations, pure love, unconditional, right. That's the number three friend. So, I keep hearing people talk about like different things, like different levels. There's the personal level, there's the professional level, there's the universal level
[00:09:05] FAWN: of friendship, of, of real, of everything, of everything. And they were talking about like currency, like not the way we talk about currency, but like I've been seeing this pop up in, talks now. It's interesting. So
[00:09:24] FAWN: what I really wanna talk about is intimacy and the whole generosity and intimacy thing. So yesterday I went out with my friend Tracy. And I'm like, so how did you become friends with this group of women that you're talking about? So now they live in different states. Mm-hmm. , but they still have a very beautiful bond and they keep in touch and it's very sweet.
[00:09:48] FAWN: Like it's a total beautiful, strong bond. I'm like, how did you guys become friends? So she told me how it all started and it started in a, like a mom, new mom's group. So it doesn't matter what it was, but it was a little group. Right, right. And I guess they met on Facebook to exchange info, like, Hey, let's meet here on this day, blah, blah, blah.
[00:10:13] FAWN: Tracy doesn't do Facebook. D didn't do Facebook back then. So she's like, okay, for you. . I'm gonna get on Facebook. I'll start an account today. . So she did and so this is what she was telling me. Mm-hmm. , this was a few years ago. And so she did that and she realized, okay, they meet like, I don't know, maybe once a week or maybe once a month.
[00:10:33] FAWN: So she went up to them. She's like, how do I see more of you? I wanna see more of you. I'm like, Tracy, that is such a beautiful thing to say. That is incredibly generous. Because, and it's also a form of exposing, not only intimacy, but exposing your vulnerability to say, how do I do this? I, I, I wanna hang out with you.
[00:10:57] FAWN: How do I see more of you? Like, who does that? It's kind of like how you ask me out on the f our first date, Matt. It's like, I was so used to guys saying, Hey, you wanna hang out for coffee? You wanna get some coffee? , you wanna hang out? 
[00:11:12] MATT: Right. Where there's an ambiguity to it, 
[00:11:14] FAWN: like what is it? Yeah, exactly.
[00:11:16] FAWN: That's a perfect word for it. Ambiguity. 
[00:11:19] MATT: Well, in the same token, something that drives 
[00:11:21] MATT: me like absurd and I've, I've seen it enacted in movies and I know people use this line, but they're like, you're so beautiful, I could just kiss you because they're looking for the woman to say, that would be lovely. . I don't know.
[00:11:35] MATT: It's, again, it's, it's a hedge of the bat. It's, it's, I'm not going to put myself out there mm-hmm. completely. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna protect myself at every step of the way and be able to say, oh no, I was just kidding, or whatever. Silly, ridiculous thing you 
[00:11:49] MATT: say. 
[00:11:50] FAWN: It's very cowardly. So when Matt asked me out, First of all, I, I got scared because he said my name 
[00:11:57] MATT: as well.
[00:11:57] MATT: You should,
[00:11:58] FAWN: well, he said, well, I got scared because he said My name 
[00:12:01] MATT: Fawn 
[00:12:02] FAWN: yes. Just like that. and I, I'm like, uhoh, 
[00:12:06] MATT: uhoh. What did I do? 
[00:12:06] FAWN: I felt like I was being called into the principal's office. You know, like, see 
[00:12:10] MATT: that's the way to ask somebody out, make them terrified. Oh wait, no, well you broke. Absolutely 
[00:12:14] FAWN: not.
[00:12:15] FAWN: You broke my ki because I knew immediately ohoh, something's different here. 
[00:12:20] MATT: Something is coming, 
[00:12:21] FAWN: something is different. This is not the casual hangout. You're about to spring something on me because like, 
[00:12:27] MATT: do I have we casually hung out, but literally as friends, 
[00:12:33] FAWN: so, so you, you. , you startled me. I'm like, uhoh.
[00:12:37] FAWN: What? So I was all ears. I was like, what? And you're like, I like you. What? Tell, tell them what you said. Do you remember Fawn, FAWN. 
[00:12:49] MATT: Fawn, I like you. I want to go out with you. What do you think? Boom, boom, boom. 
[00:12:57] FAWN: It was shocking 
[00:12:59] MATT: as well it should be. 
[00:12:59] FAWN: It was because I was so used to, uh, the half-assed. Boys like, you wanna hang out for coffee?
[00:13:05] MATT: Use the whole ass
[00:13:10] FAWN: Sorry about the language. But yeah, so it was, it was bold. It was very, um, it was, there was no ambiguity. Am ambi, how do you say that? Ambiguity, there was no ambiguity. I can't say that word. There was, it was very clear, very, very clear. I had no question, no doubt. . Oh my God. He's asking me out on a date. Same thing works in friendship. So I like what Tracy did. She just went up to these people and said, right, wow. I really like you. How do I see more of you? Right, right. And she kept at it because I don't think that group was totally cohesive and like, uh, mindfully doing things a certain way every week, like being together.
[00:13:53] FAWN: And I think from my own pers from my perspective, an outside perspective, listening to this story, I think it was her generosity and her vulnerability showing that this could be, this is an intimate thing, like a beautiful, intimate friendship that she's offering. Right? And, and she's, it's such a great compliment to say, how do I see more of you?
[00:14:20] FAWN: I mean yet. 
[00:14:21] MATT: Wow. A compliment. Yes. But also they could have said no, or why, or they could have made her feel, but you know what? Two inches tall. 
[00:14:29] FAWN: Who would say that? Only some little kids that are so insecure like elementary school, junior high and high school, and all that comes from a total state of.
[00:14:43] FAWN: Always raw and insecure that you're so worried about every ridiculous thing you're worried about, whatever they're worried about image. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. Only some ignorant fool would say no to someone. Wonderful coming up and saying, how do I see more of you? You guys are great. Am I wrong? 
[00:15:11] MATT: No, you're absolutely right.
[00:15:12] MATT: But again, you're right. It plays into the kind of, I used to call it high school Cool versus college cool, cuz they're two very different things.
[00:15:22] FAWN: What's the difference? 
[00:15:24] MATT: College Cool to me is like really cool. Like almost like I don't care what anybody thinks kind of thing without being aggressive about it.
[00:15:33] MATT: Mm-hmm. . Whereas high school cool, felt like there was an established hierarchy and you fit, you slotted somewhere into this established hierarchy, and that's how quote unquote cool you were. 
[00:15:44] FAWN: It's like prison. I mean, it, it's horrible. Like junior high, high school for me was not a good time. , right? Like I was tripping out on all these, like what you said, the hierarchy, like where did that come from all of a sudden, right.
[00:16:01] FAWN: And 
[00:16:01] MATT: one hierarchy. It's not like there was like multiple levels or anything. You either existed in the hierarchy or you were outside of 
[00:16:10] MATT: society. 
[00:16:11] FAWN: Where does that come from? Because it comes from such a place that is lacking of love and compassion. Like why did that suddenly come about in these groups at that age?
[00:16:22] FAWN: I don't understand it. I wanna say it's very primitive, but I don't know what primitive is. Primitive could have been a very lovely society. You know, I don't like the word civilized. I think only colonists use that term, and I hate that. I don't use that term, civilized, what's, what's the word we said was better the other day.
[00:16:47] FAWN: Uh, dignified. Dignified. It's fair. It's not dignified. It's What is that? It's horrible. Yes, it is so stripped of compassion and love, like I said. So anyway, if someone does say no, I don't wanna hang out with you. Well thank you for letting me know. I know who you are now, and I know not to go that way.
[00:17:11] FAWN: So move on. 
[00:17:12] MATT: Right. And you're not assuming anything. That's, that's kind of my big thing is I like all my conversations to be very explicit. And this came from a very early age where, uh, I thought I was dating this girl, but her friend clearly let me know no, you're not until you make it painfully clear Right.
[00:17:31] MATT: Then you're not, you're not doing anything. Mm-hmm. jerky and, you know, this was told to like my 15 year old self. And guess what? Message received. Thank 
[00:17:39] MATT: you. . 
[00:17:41] FAWN: I mean, is this the same man? I was friends with this guy. We were friends and I thought I was clear that there's nothing romantic between us.
[00:17:50] FAWN: We never kissed. We never touched. And it wasn't, there was nothing romantic about us being together. Right. But in his mind it was, and then he moved away. And all I know is like all of a sudden, like he's buying a house for us. Like he's looking for a house. What, and that like, it, it was scary. I'm like, whoa, never talk to this person again.
[00:18:15] FAWN: Because what kind of communication is that? Like they had, right. That's a, that's a whole other thing. Like, it, it, it feels like they were, people just developed their own stories in their heads 
[00:18:25] MATT: and there you go, and, or they talk things over with their 
[00:18:28] MATT: friends. Went through, again, the same, similar thing in high school where I could swear I saw all these signs that said, you know, things and then, 
[00:18:38] FAWN: Then what?
[00:18:38] FAWN: What are you talking about?
[00:18:39] MATT: I thought this girl liked me. 
[00:18:40] FAWN: Oh, okay. 
[00:18:40] MATT: And you know, I thought that there were signs everywhere that pointed me right at it. So I asked her out, no big deal. Completely and utterly wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Which is why I, I tell people I don't believe in signs. 
[00:18:55] FAWN: I do. I believe in signs.
[00:18:57] FAWN: Why are you with me? Be . 
[00:18:59] FAWN: The signs lead me to you 
[00:19:00] MATT: because I said Fawn
[00:19:01] FAWN: no . 
[00:19:03] FAWN: I totally believe in signs. You still don't believe in signs? Is that why you looked at me the way you did the other day? On Friday, I come home, I'm like, I got lottery tickets because I kept seeing all these signs, like they were outrageous, these signs that kept happening in one hour.
[00:19:19] FAWN: And so I went and bought lottery tickets, . And you just stared at me with this cold stare. Is that what that was about? ? 
[00:19:27] MATT: I don't know what was going through my 
[00:19:28] FAWN: head. 
[00:19:29] FAWN: You looked not enchanted, , 
[00:19:32] FAWN: you were not please. 
[00:19:33] MATT: And there you have it.
[00:19:35] MATT: I'm always 
[00:19:36] MATT: enchanting. 
[00:19:37] FAWN: But anyway, can we get back to intimacy and what 
[00:19:39] FAWN: that means now, like, oh, I think that's the next step.
[00:19:41] FAWN: So being authentic, right? The art of vulnerability. When you were, we talked about this last time, on the last episode,  the art of knowing your weakness.
[00:19:54] FAWN: leads you to be able to be vulnerable without getting hurt. When you own yourself, when you have, when you pull yourself together, when your energy isn't leaking in many different directions. Mm-hmm. , when you, like Matt says, when you know your inner Popeye, it's the same thing basically, you know what your weaknesses are.
[00:20:17] FAWN: There's no way anyone can make fun of you. I mean, they can make fun of you. Oh, they can make fun of you. No, they can make fun of you, but there's no way that it, it's going to bother you that much. It's like, huh? All right. It's kind of like Cyrano de Bergerac. He knew he had a big nose. . And when he was being ridiculed by this guy, he was like, you have a big nose.
[00:20:38] FAWN: He's like, , is that the best you can do? Right? He, there's this whole huge monologue. 
[00:20:44] MATT: It's a whole 
[00:20:45] MATT: monologue, and he's like, you could have said, uh, what a great sign for a perfumery shop and when it bleeds the Red Sea. And then here's the funniest part, he ends it with, and you are an A s S for just because of the attack he made on Cyrano.
[00:21:02] MATT: Was that stupid, right? Was that incipid, was that remedial, was that basic.
[00:21:07] FAWN: So 
[00:21:07] FAWN: basically when you know your shortcomings, whatever term it is, like your weakness, whatever, it's like nothing can touch. . right. Matt, am I wrong? I mean, some things can touch 
[00:21:21] FAWN: you, but you, you are right.
[00:21:22] MATT: It's not, but in inside of the scope of Cyrano de Bergerac is a whole other story.
[00:21:25] FAWN: It's 
[00:21:25] FAWN: not gonna break you because you own it, you own yourself. You're powerful. Right? And that's how you can lead. You can lead a crowd. You're together. 
[00:21:35] MATT: But that's why I literally asked you out the way I did, is I asked you out from a place of complete strength, a complete centeredness, I realized it would change our relationship one way or another.
[00:21:47] MATT: But you know, I took the leap, but I took it with strength. 
[00:21:51] FAWN: And this is what being authentic is. You're authentically you and you're expressing how you feel. And you're asking for what you want. You're asking for it. You're not demanding it, you're not imposing yourself on anyone, but you're communicating.
[00:22:08] FAWN: This is part of communication, right? And I think this is a great part of the art of Friendship is that you're being authentic. You have that art of vulnerability and that's how you connect on a deeper level. You open up and you get closer with someone like that. And that's what I wanted to talk about is that being vulnerable like that. Oftentimes when we hear vulnerable, we think, oh, raw, it's gonna, it's going to destroy us when we're vulnerable naked, right?
[00:22:45] FAWN:  You have a wound that's open to other germs and other ways of attack that can destroy you.
[00:22:56] FAWN: When you have love and you are centered, pulled together, authentic, nothing, nothing can get you but love and you just grow in love, right? Yes. And that's how you grow friendship, because that's magnetism right there. That's what True leaders, great leaders have, that sense of comfort. They're comfortable within themselves and they have the energy to look at someone and give them all the grace in the world, all the attention on this one person and do it for everyone they see. And that's what we all crave. I don't care who you are, everybody needs that like they need air, water, food and touch, right?
[00:23:53] MATT: Yes. Yes. To be recognized is a humongously kind of bit of awesomeness. When somebody recognizes you as anything, well, not anything, but you know, they recognize you as someone who they want to know, you know, there've been a couple of places since we've moved where I get that level of recognition and my goodness, it feels nice.
[00:24:20] FAWN: It does. So let's all, we should do all do this every day. I mean, I'm all all into it. Like every day I go out, I'm like, who's next? All right. I. . I went to a gas station the other day, 
[00:24:36] MATT: Hey, that's my gas station.
[00:24:37] FAWN: I know that's your gas station. And I went there to get a lottery ticket, . And I ended up meeting the coolest person behind the counter.
[00:24:48] FAWN: And I just was literally just went trying to get a lottery ticket right. And run right. And we started talking because she asked me a very vulnerable, well, she asked me a question that no person at a gas station has ever asked me before . I'm like, what? What is happening? And so we ended up talking for, I dunno, 45 minutes,
[00:25:14] FAWN: Anyway, . So identifying someone, pick someone to be generous to, or pick someone to open up to, to connect on a deeper level. Just like look around, like everybody's like, candy, what candy? What candy should we pick today? , 
[00:25:31] MATT: and it can be something as basic, uh, as asking a coworker what they're up to this weekend, who you wouldn't normally ask and or telling them what you're up to, but 
[00:25:43] FAWN: or the, the assignment.
[00:25:45] FAWN: And don't think of it an assignment. Just think of it as something to do, but pick someone to be generous to. How can you be generous? What can you, what can you offer. . It could be a cupcake, it could be chocolate, it could be a coffee. It could be in some way, be generous. It could be a compliment, it could be anything.
[00:26:06] FAWN: Something generous. What would be generous? Okay. Okay. That's it. Do you have anything else to add? Nope. Okay. So, alright. We love you so much. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you in just a few days. Let us know what happens. Okay. Talk to you later. Bye guys. Be well. Wait, 
[00:26:29] MATT: wait, wait, wait. Oh, up, up. 
[00:26:31] FAWN: Please tell everyone about the podcast.
[00:26:33] FAWN: Leave a review, a kind one if you can, and tell everyone to download. Help us with our numbers. Go up. Oh, sorry. That was my throat. Did you hear that?
[00:26:45] FAWN: Talk to you soon. Bye bye-bye.