"The 'Popular Friend' - Navigating Authenticity: The Pitfalls of the Popularity Game"

The Popular Friend
Fawn: [00:00:00] Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to our friendly world. 
Oh, I'm sorry. Hello. How 
you doing? I didn't know, I don't, you know, it's been, how long has it been, Matt? Three and a half years? Four years since we started podcasting? And every time I'm, supposed to say, welcome to our friendly world.
We're talking about the art of friendship and creating a better society, a friendlier society, a more rich society, all of the good things a society is. That's what we're holding. And every time I forget to say welcome to our friendly world. But anyway, hi everybody, welcome back. Hello. So, the popular friend.
Oh dear. Looking up popular, sometimes when I really need to understand something, when my emotions are jumbled up I just tend to look up a definition of a word, and it helps me. So, [00:01:00] the issue the past few months for me has been the popularity game, it's always been an issue. 
Let me just go back. Should I start with a definition, or should I just say what's really bothering me? Why don't you just go into what's bugging 
MATT: you. 
Fawn: What's bothering me is the desperate need people have to appear popular. And I have some examples. 
MATT: Desperate need, 
Fawn: well And I just find that gross.
And unfortunately, some of them were, um, some of that behavior is coming from some people that I thought were close to me, and I guess they are close to me, but I'm a little miffed at them and I can't quite put it into words when I'm talking to them, and I probably won't bring it up because it's so bound within their, their being that they'll never understand what I'm saying, I feel like, and I don't want to fight.
I don't want confrontation, I've just [00:02:00] been noticing it everywhere. I feel like, and this is going to sound so unpopular, Bear with me.
I just feel like people at the risk of everything just want to be popular and be seen as like the good guy or like, they just want to be popular. They want to be hip, right? Everybody wants to be the good guy though. Everyone wants to be hip but they don't take into consideration the, um, the side effects or the, what do you call it?
They don't consider the greater well being of the people involved. Everything just to be popular. Risking it all. And not really thinking of a person's welfare. Of a person's well being. Especially for our kids, especially. You know, I think, I feel like all the kids are I don't want to get into [00:03:00] specifics, but There's a lot going on with the youngest generation, and I think that we all need space.
They all need space. And I feel like as a parent, even some of my good friends, they're just putting aside what is good for our kids, and they just want to be cool and hip. 
MATT: Well, yeah, of course, you know, let's, let's have, let's have donuts for breakfast as opposed to actually eating something healthy. 
Fawn: I know I'm being cryptic, guys.
I can't. I'm not, I don't have the ability right now. I don't have the permission to get into details. But, as an example, example, okay, years ago, Matt, you were at the office. And I would take the kids, they were very little back then. They were toddlers, okay? And, you know, Elle always had an issue walking in the very beginning, right?
Right. So, she was very cautious about the [00:04:00] steps she took, and she was very cautious about climbing things. Mm hmm. Now, our other, our other one, the youngest one had no issues, no fear, would run all over the place, but this particular day, we went to this one playground we would always go to, and they had this, the playground then had these huge, I don't know what you call them.
They're like, all these contraptions, and wobbly bridges, and rock climbing walls, and. Like a fort, where you climb, and then you swing, and it's for really gymnastic, motivated kids, right? Gymnastics, like, for kids who have no problems jumping off of high heights, and, and doing cartwheels, and, you know, like, what's that thing?
The ninja sport that we were into. Parkour. You know, like, a very Parkour situation. So, what happened was, I was holding on to our youngest, like, carrying [00:05:00] her, and then, Elle, who's like, I don't know, two years, two and a half years older than our youngest, was trying to, very carefully, maneuver across this rickety bridge.
Now, it was rickety on purpose. They made it that way to make it, like, A hard bridge to walk across. Right. Right, it would move, and there was, and you were high up. So anyway, here we are, I'm holding one by the hand, and then the other one I'm carrying on my hip, and I have a backpack filled with stuff. Right?
As a mom does. I've got the snacks. I've got the diapers. I've got changes of clothes. I have water, juice, whatever. Right? First aid kit. It's all in there. Kitchen sink. Anyway, so we're at the bridge. And so we're kind of stuck. And I'm thinking, uh oh, how am I going to get these kids down? Right? Because now they're both kind of starting to freak out a little bit.[00:06:00] 
Anyway. There's a woman who is directly underneath us, sitting very comfortably on the bench. Very nice. Right? And she's looking at Elle. She's like, Come on, you can do it! Just walk all the way across! Just do it! Just walk and climb up higher, climb up higher! And so, Elle started to do what this lady said, and I'm thinking to myself, Uh oh, if we go any further, I don't know how to get these kids down.
Right. And so, sure enough, we get stuck. And now it's getting scary because we're now literally stuck at a point where we're afraid to even turn around or look down. And we're just kind of hanging on, kind of scared. And I look at this lady who's like yelling, you know, Go! Do it! Climb! You can do it! Climb up higher!
I look at her and at this point Elle is screaming and crying. Like crying. Did I ever tell you this? I don't think so. She was screaming, crying for help. [00:07:00] Right. Help, help. And I'm stuck and I'm trying to be calm because I don't want our youngest to freak out. You know, any further. Anyway, this lady. 
MATT: Obviously got up and helped you 
Fawn: guys, right?
She literally, I'm not exaggerating, Matt. You guys, I am not exaggerating. She ran away. What? 
MATT: Of course she did. She ran away. Right. People are unwilling to deal 
Fawn: with consequences. I was so, like, angry and so upset. And I think an old man helped us down. Someone had to help us down. And I think another man came and picked up Elle and carried her down.
But, like, that's what I'm talking about. You know, she wanted to be popular, like, Woohoo! Go! You know? Like, she was the one that made it happen. And I, that's what I'm talking [00:08:00] about. Like, so desperate to be looked at as, to appear as popular. Um, hip. Whatever it is. I don't know what she was thinking. I do know what she was thinking.
But the look on her face. And then seeing her literally run away. Right. Of course. Thank you. You, you, what do you call that person? A witch with a B? No. When they have no guts. Coward. Coward. Anyway, like I said. They don't have the welfare of the people really in mind, and I feel like that that's happening a lot lately.
And it's happening on other levels with our kids and with me as a parent. When I ask my friends, look, you know when the kids are going through whatever they're going through, I would appreciate it if you gave them some space and allow for them to figure things out instead of jumping on whatever they're on at that particular [00:09:00] second.
And cementing whatever it is they're going through as forever. If they're depressed, you're depressed. If, if they're experiencing something, you have, you have, what's that thing? OCD? OCD or ADHD or you're, uh, neurodiverse. I'm like, and then I have to sit with the kids and go, listen, we are all neurodiverse.
I believe that our brains, our psyches, are like thumbprints, fingerprints. Nobody's the same. Nobody's brain works the same. So all these labels And by the way, they run the gamut. We have labels on, like, the way you look. Your sexual labels. Your, student labels. Everyone wants to put you in a certain box.
And we want freedom to be able to learn and be open minded and not be brought down by any particular idea. We want [00:10:00] to soar. We want to learn six languages, which we're working on. We want to learn. Calculus and use it in music I just don't appreciate these people right now.
I feel like everyone's on my nerves because everyone's on top of me 
MATT: yeah, everybody is, feels like everybody is so quick to say, this is the answer or, and none of them are like living in it day in day out. You know, I mean, there's 27, 000 drugs out on the market, so you can take one of those.
Well, should you? Is this a temporary thing? Is this the new normal? Is this a permanent thing? And then you get into, okay, if it is a permanent thing, is it a good thing or a bad thing? And you know what? Everybody goes through SHIT. The trick is to get through the SHIT. And if Somebody wants to label you in that moment.
It's like I still remember, [00:11:00] oh my goodness, going to the acupuncture, right? And they, for whatever it was, I think I had an upset tummy. And every time I went after that, they had to ask about my stomach, which was fine after like three weeks. It was ridiculous. But every single time, it's, you're defined by this first experience, in the same way you're defined by, people want to define you by, the terrible things that happen to you.
Fawn: I understand what you're saying. What does that have to do with appearing popular? What I'm saying It's, it's 
MATT: getting pushed into the box. It's 
Fawn: Well, can I go over the meaning? Yeah. And then can we come back to this conversation? Yep, not a problem. Alright, so early 15th century popular. Etymology. Public.
Commonly known. From Old French, populair, and directly from the Latin, popularis. [00:12:00] Belonging to the people. General. Common. Devoted. accepted by the people. Democratic. The meaning of or pertaining to the people. Depending on the people. Especially the common people. Um, let's see. It's from the 1540s.
The meaning is suited to ordinary people. Easily comprehended. From the 1570s in English, hence, of prices, low, affordable, to average persons, okay, 1859, I guess it's talking about money. And then. Well-liked admired by or enjoying the favor of the people. From circa 1600 of art, entertainment, et cetera, favored by people generally so basically what I'm getting from it is it's common. So do you [00:13:00] really wanna be common? I feel like trying to be popular is, you're trying to blend in and be common. What I'm feeling right now about these people that are trying to look so hip and cool, and not worrying about the consequences.
Right. That's how I see them, is I see them as basic. You know, it's, it's, and I talked about this before about people who try to, um, okay, let's say there's someone in school, right? Or someone out there who looks so cool to you. They're dressed unlike anyone else. And then that person becomes popular, right?
For their style, for their uniqueness. Then everyone else tries to be like them by wearing the same clothes, shoes, hairstyle. Whatever it is that they're doing, they imitate to be popular. 
MATT: And they wreck whatever made this person special and unique. Well, 
Fawn: let's just forget that. No, because that person will forever be unique because they went against the grain[00:14:00] and were unique enough to stand out.
That made them popular. And it's interesting, the people who try to be popular are kind of doing the opposite. They want to blend and they want to be part of that. Like, in a mindless way, saying or acting in a way to seem popular, likeable, please like me,
basic. That's what I'm talking about. And I know I have a lot of rage on me, guys, how do we handle the popular friend? And I'm talking about the friend that's desperately trying to be popular. Even if, I'm just like thinking about it. Do they even know what they're doing?
MATT: How far are they willing to go? Because I mean, honestly, sometimes when I'm hanging out with the guys at the gas station, which is not a good criterion for popular at all, but I find myself wanting to make that witticism. Like wanting [00:15:00] to get a zinger in.
And I wouldn't necessarily say desperate, because nobody likes to look at themselves that way, but maybe. Maybe I'm trying to be popular with that crowd. 
Fawn: Well, are you going against what you normally say? Are you acting different? Are you acting in a different way than you normally do? Are you walking a different way?
Are you Right, and that's Are you changing Some things about you to get a laugh. And that's really the key, isn't it? And that's cringeworthy, if you are 
MATT: doing that. Right. Right. So let me think, am I? Oh, of course not. No, I don't know, it's something I'm gonna have to take a look at, for 
Fawn: sure. Okay, I've known you Because 
MATT: friends do change you to some extent, I mean, every relationship you have changes you.
Fawn: Well, it's like alcohol. People say, oh, it was because I was drunk, you know? In a way, it's kind of like that. It's already what's in you, it comes out in a magnified way. I want to say that I've known you long [00:16:00] enough, many decades, or a few decades, so I know I have not really seen you be out of character maybe once in a while.
And it was when you were sick, like you were not yourself. Mm-Hmm. like you were mean, like uncharacteristically weird behavior. Like one day you did that and it was when you were, it was right before you ended up in the hospital. Like you were not yourself. Mm-Hmm. . But I want to say, you don't do that, Matt.
I'd like to think I don't, for sure. I mean, you're juvenile, yes. Hey o! When you think it comes out, it gets amplified when you're around certain people. But I think that's still part of your personality. You know what I'm saying? So I don't think that's a good example. I'm just, you know, I wish I could tell you guys exactly what happened.
And name names and name exactly what was said. Oh dear. I can't. I can't. Right. Please bear with me. [00:17:00] 
I just feel like there's so much going on in the world. And people don't fully understand the details of what is involved. And without thinking about it, without being completely educated on the man, on whatever it is. That they're just willing to speak whatever they speak because it's the normal speak because it's the popular speak.
And I'm seeing it not only with children, with adults talking to children, I'm seeing it in politics, I'm seeing it in the world. People don't really understand what's going on and they think they do. And they're just saying just the things that are coming out of people's mouths. It makes me not want to be friends with a lot of people, but that's what we go through.
That is part of friendship is like, okay, when I was in high school, I had a friend, my, most of my friends were older than me. And one of them once told me, having friends is like having a garden. You're going [00:18:00] to need to weed the garden. You always have to weed the garden. I'm like, what do you mean? He says, if you want your garden to be a specific way, you have to take some things out of it for other things to grow.
And so people are the same way. Not everyone is meant to be in your garden. You need to weed people out. So, here I go. Do I need to weed some people out? Why are you looking at me like that? ? Well, because Matt's eyes are big and his eyebrows or 
MATT: waist, it's, it's, it's like when the teacher says, okay, who did da, da, da?
Who? Who put the chalk in the eraser? Right? . Even if I didn't do it, which typically I do do it, but even if I'm not the one who does it, I look guilty. So I'm worried. Are you gonna trim me? You're gonna weed 
Fawn: me. I'm just looking at 
MATT: you. Because look at that weed. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Oh, get outta here.
Fawn: Gold. No. No. [00:19:00] You're my forever garden. No, but there are some friends, there's one friend in particular that's been trying me not listening. And that's my number one pet peeve is when people don't listen and it's very rare for me to ask a favor and that favor could be, Hey, don't, you know, I don't want you to say such and such to my kids.
And they do. You know what I'm talking about though, right? Again, not thinking about consequences. Not thinking about the welfare involved. You're not thinking about 
MATT: consequences on both sides of it. I get it. I get, yeah. We have to be, we have to be very judicious with the things we say and with the labels we apply.
I mean when I was, when I was growing up, oh my goodness. I was just a complete, in high school especially, I was a complete enigma [00:20:00] because you know, I looked a certain way and then I was in all these like really tricky classes, and I did well in them. I think All of a sudden, people have a nasty habit, popular kind of makes us reduce the person to one dimension.
Really? Well, I'm looking at commonly 
Fawn: known, right? Well, that's what I'm saying. Okay, I think there are two definitions. There's the popular who is truly popular because they're totally unique. you want to be part of that, so you imitate, because you're wanting to be popular.
 You're not really looking at what's unique about yourself. They're not, they're not looking at what's unique about their own selves. They just try to imitate someone else. Because, obviously, their own Unique self they feel is unworthy, or un everything, that they [00:21:00] have to be something else to fit in.
Otherwise, they're never going to be liked. The only way you can be liked is to totally be comfortable and embody who you really are. It's the only way, also, to have true friendship. Because what? You always have a facade on? It's a lie. And eventually that friendship will break down because you're not truthful. 
MATT: Absolutely. But what I'm describing in my mind, in my thoughts, that I'm not conveying well, I 
Fawn: suppose I'm sorry. You could be, but I keep interrupting. Is that 
MATT: even though Okay, I was never really popular in high school. I don't think most people who think they were popular in high school ever were.
Everybody always says above average. It doesn't matter. But how I was known, how I was categorized, was miscategorization entirely. And for those people who got to see [00:22:00] more of the whole picture, because it's high school, hundreds of people, you don't get a chance to know people in that kind of environment very well.
But, people did tend to view me as one dimensional. Because it's convenient, because it's easy, 
Fawn: because it's And I know who you're talking about. I think those were your parents and the teachers. They didn't get who you were, but looking at pic I didn't know you back then. But looking at your pictures, and knowing you, I'm like, there's the popular guy.
There is an individual right there. So strong, so powerful, gorgeous. Heyo. No, I'm serious. Smart. with integrity. 
MATT: Terrible dancer though. 
Fawn: Cool. But, do you know what I'm saying? I do. I mean those people who saw you as one dimensional are the ones who don't understand and who are struggling with that. 
MATT: But that's what I think we want people outside of us want to [00:23:00] define say us our children as as well though as one dimensional as having this one thing We know what to say.
Fawn: Right. And that's my, that's my beef right now. 
MATT: It's like, it's like, Oh, you have an upset stomach? Pepto Bismol. I mean, there's a chemical solution for every problem it feels like that'll just solve it. Just no problem. Can't sleep? Oh, get sleep medication. Not. Let's figure out why. Maybe your sleep schedule's messed up.
Maybe you're actually working on a, what is it, a 30 hour clock because some people do. Maybe you're getting too much. Who knows? But let's not even worry about that. Let's just throw some, let's just throw a, either a pithy saying, a label, or 
Fawn: a drug at it. Doctors are doing this. I took the kids to the pediatrician.
You know, after the pandemic, Mm hmm. Lo and behold, hello, one of our kids [00:24:00] has an obsession with washing their hands. So the doctor who sees, what, the kids for maybe 30 minutes? Right. A year, maybe. But they're the experts. Looks at our kid's hand and says, Oh, you have OCD. 
So they look at the hands briefly from across the room and said oh you have OCD So now the kid is terrified about having OCD. It's another label I'm like, you know, can we just talk about we just came out of a worldwide pandemic and yes They have an issue with washing their hands.
They're scared. They're constantly washing their hands Don't just label it OCD and say okay. Thank you. Bye. Oh, by the way, that's 300 What? Can we discuss germs? Can we discuss how safe we are? How we need certain germs and it's okay? No. You have OCD. Thank you. Bye. [00:25:00] Just slap on a label and not think about the welfare of the person.
You know, I think another thing that I want to say today, another thing about what I'm trying to convey, is that we have become in our society so careless about The words that are coming out of our mouths and how it can be felt by the person hearing them. You could be devastating someone with a few words that will last their entire lives.
And you have no, what's the word for it? You have, you don't care. You have no consciousness about, you're not conscious about how you changing the world around you. 
MATT: You're not being present to What your words are really saying. It's the least I can do. Well, screw you. Do 
Fawn: better than that. Well, actually, I was having a conversation with, with Michelle, our friend Michelle Silence, about that.
And she's like, well, it, it, [00:26:00] she understood, she, she was saying, well, the least I can do means I can do a lot more. So do alot more oh my goodness, Matt, I don't want to get into that fight. That's just a saying. That's like saying, you have a je ne sais quoi about you. Like, it's something mysterious. Really, what je ne sais quoi means is I don't know.
You haven't, I don't know about you. Yeah, like, but it's, but to say that, people who don't understand that they use, they overuse a term or a phrase. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about hitting someone with words. I'm talking about a strike, a blow to someone's life. 
MATT: And that's what I'm talking about too.
I keep thinking about, my friend Linda Bland Bixby and when she lost her husband. Right. She was a very devout woman. She was. But when people told her it was God's will, I hope by the time she met her end she had not lost her faith. But that [00:27:00] didn't help. Right. That didn't help her hold on to her faith.
Fawn: Well, okay. Part of a solution to this problem could be if we not panic about
People panic and they say stuff. Yes. I think it's okay to not say anything. I don't think it's okay to be quiet. But I think it's okay to be present. And loving. And open to explore. And open. The main thing is to be present. Yes.
Not quiet, but present and respectful. And truly hearing what the person is saying. 
So if I tell you, Hey, don't say this thing to my kid. Mm hmm. right now that's a non negotiable. And yet you go and do that with pride, after I specifically explained it to you, then yeah, we have a problem. Because you're not hearing me.
You're not [00:28:00] respecting me, and you're not respecting my family. You're invading the space of my child. You're invading my child. So do 
MATT: we need to change the name of the episode to the pseudo popular 
Fawn: friend? I mean, you know, I'm kind of saying it like a joking way, like the popular friend. Oh, you're so popular.
Good for you. You know what I'm saying? Like really think about what you're trying to do. Not you guys listening, but like people out there, what are they really trying to do? They're trying to be liked at the cost of ruining everything else. They just want to be liked. They want to appear as lovable and hip, whatever hip is.
In that moment in time, in that particular culture. And it's embarrassing because when you look back on it, you're like, Ooh, I can't believe I did that, or I wore that, or, you know what I'm saying? But if you're truly living from an authentic place, it is timeless. I never liked the fashion [00:29:00] from the 1970s, but then there's some designers that I love from the 70s.
Why? It's authentic, it's true, it's classic, it is timeless. It's the best part of the 1970s. You know what I'm saying? 
MATT: Bring on the leisure suits is what I'm 
Fawn: saying. . Anyway, that is my rant for today. It always goes back to being authentic.
Yes. 
MATT: Be real. Be 
Fawn: you. Thanks for listening guys. I hope that was okay, my little rant. Let us know what you think. Thank you for listening. Really appreciate you all of you listening.
Have a beautiful every day and we'll talk to you soon. Be well