Very Superstitious

Very Superstitious
[00:00:00] Fawn: I'm okay. How are you? I'm doing 
[00:00:03] MATT: quite well. Thank you. Hello. 
[00:00:05] Fawn: Hello. Hello. Hi, everybody. 
[00:00:08] MATT: Oh my goodness. Are we just going to jump right into 
[00:00:10] Fawn: it? We're jumping right in. We usually do a test like, Hello, Chuck. Check, check, check, sound check, but. 
[00:00:15] MATT: And I usually sing the alphabet. But anyways, hello. 
[00:00:21] Fawn: Hello. Um, you know, it just seems like, alright, obviously, obvi, everything goes back to friendship.
[00:00:32] Fawn: So bear with me. Is it just me? I know it's not just me. Never mind. I have to say that because I want some, um, you know, what do you call it when someone agrees with you? Confirmation? Thank you, confirmation. Wow, that was my throat gurgling. Did you hear that? Nope. Okay, um, so, everything is becoming more and more chaotic.
[00:00:59] Fawn: Yes. In macro and micro version. Because, obviously, when things are chaotic on the smallest level, it ripples out to the greater level, right? And the other way around, probably. I don't know. Ichi bu hachi ken. I'm just saying, just with kids, kids are freaking out. Yes. Not just our kids, like, I'm noticing it with other people's kids around, all over the place, around the world.
[00:01:28] Fawn: There is so much... Horribleness happening. There is so much, like, I don't...
[00:01:34] Fawn: I mean. There's so much more... I can't keep locking myself in the basement. Not that I actually lock myself in the basement, you guys. But I just, you know, I do, like... I step away. I step away for a few hours. I recuse myself. So anyway, it makes me think though, a lot of the lessons that I've learned, a lot of things that make me have a better, uh, understanding of people, of the world in general.
[00:02:02] Fawn: are from things I saw when I was a kid, like this, this podcast, for example, the whole friendship thing, I started noticing when I was a little kid, like, whoa, look at the difference between this culture and that culture, look at how this family talks to their kids, look at how this country talks to their kids, look at how this other country talks to their kids, look at how This one place treats friendship and family as opposed to this other place.
[00:02:29] Fawn: So anyway, that's why we have the podcast. If, if you want to know like how we started and why we started, just go back to the first two episodes. And mind you, we had different microphones back then. But in a world of uncertainty and chaos, I'm understanding why there's superstition. Because when you just don't know what else to do, when you've done everything you can to make things better, and then you've also prayed and gotten, spiritual about it.
[00:02:58] Fawn: Right. And you're still like, well, I don't know what else to do. Then you start getting crazy superstitions. So, going back to when I was a child, like how it taught me something. When I was a kid, oh god, I don't remember what grade you guys, I think I was in fourth grade, and I had to take the bus for an hour every day, like a school bus.
[00:03:22] Fawn: Um, back then they would take one neighborhood of kids to have it mingle with another neighborhood. This was in L. A. especially, like there was a busing program. Mm hmm. And so we could all mix, right? Anyway. So, what happened was someone said something, and I'm pretty sure it was in my family, about, if you say a thing that seems good, you better knock on wood, or else the opposite will happen.
[00:03:50] Fawn: Right. And when I was a kid, that was terrifying for me. Because I was already, now looking back on it, I don't know how I got through. Only beating up two kids when I was a kid. Only. But I was seriously, I had so much anxiety. And I was on my own with everything. I like had to take myself to school in some other country that was incredibly volatile.
[00:04:18] Fawn: My parents didn't even check me and I had to check myself in. They had destroyed my records because I was American. They did not like Ameri You know, it was It was like, I I I raised myself through it all. Like, supported myself through college, all of that. Like, on my own. Okay? So... But what happened when I heard someone say, You better knock on wood.
[00:04:43] Fawn: It turned into an OCD kind of a thing for me. Where I constantly had to look for wood to knock on because my brain would think of terrible things, right? To say the opposite of, so the opposite wouldn't happen, if that makes any sense. You know what I'm saying? It it 
[00:04:58] MATT: does. Yeah. It's, uh, programming the brain on some level.
[00:05:03] MATT: You're, you're telling your brain, okay, knock it off. When you knock 
[00:05:07] Fawn: on wood. Or you're saying, hey, it's under control. You know, we're gonna, here's a fix for it. Let me knock on wood. Right. I don't know. I mean, it's terrible. So it got so bad. And going back to the whole being on the bus thing, there was no wood on the bus.
[00:05:22] Fawn: Except for a pencil. That's right. And sometimes I didn't have a pencil for whatever reason. I don't know if the pencil, I felt like, didn't have enough wood on it. I don't remember. What the deal was. Well, it's 
[00:05:34] MATT: not purely wood. It has lead right through the middle. Or graphite. 
[00:05:37] Fawn: So, again, it was questionable.
[00:05:39] Fawn: Right. Like, is it wood or is it not wood? Is it synthetic? I don't know. So, I found myself a big, thick, wooden bracelet. Oh, dream come true. Thank you. Problem fixed. Except for your knuckles. So, I was already knocking on one anyway, honey. And plus, what's my thug name? What is my thug name? Yes, yes, yes. Knuckles is my thug name.
[00:06:04] Fawn: Um, so, on the bus, I would be constantly knocking on this bracelet. Horrible. 
[00:06:10] MATT: Well, you had an hour of, like, kind of unstructured thought if you weren't talking to anybody. 
[00:06:15] Fawn: Oh, no. I always have something going on in my head. I can have a party to 
[00:06:19] MATT: myself. Well, no, I mean like, I mean like, You know, typically for me, if I'm left alone with my thoughts, they're going to go wherever it is they go.
[00:06:26] MATT: If I'm talking with somebody, then it's more directed and more kind of focused, but... 
[00:06:32] Fawn: Also, the bus was a caged chaos on wheels on the freeway in L. A. It was, that in itself was kind of anxiety filled. Okay. A bunch of screaming kids hurling through space. Without seatbelts. Without seatbelts. And all the bullies, everybody all mixed in together.
[00:06:56] Fawn: Right. Um, and the yelling, like when you're a sensitive kid, that, you know, I didn't know back then. I need some quiet sometimes. Otherwise, it's just overwhelming. So anyway, you guys, I would be knocking and knocking and knocking and knocking and knocking. Until one day, I knocked so much that The bracelet just snapped in half, and fell to the floor, and rolled down, rolled down the bus.
[00:07:23] Fawn: And I never saw that bracelet again, but at that moment, that behavior stopped. It like, I don't know if it was the universe saying, okay, enough kid, you don't need this thing. It just disappeared in that moment, that the bracelet broke, that habit just broke. So, it makes me think, taking it back to friendship.
[00:07:49] Fawn: That was my device, something to turn to for comfort. Mm hmm. And that's what it's about today is, how do we handle anxiety? Do we seek out friendships because we are anxious and we need support? And in that case, guys, that's not the number three friend, right? Because what happens when the thing that's bothering us, the threat, goes away?
[00:08:16] Fawn: It's like, what do you have in common with that friend? Right. If it's only for survival. How many friends do we have purely for survival? Where you feel better together. 
[00:08:28] MATT: It's only if you're in a situation you can't avoid. So like, people at work, people at school. 
[00:08:35] Fawn: Or, if you're going through a rough time and that's your only point of commonality?
[00:08:40] Fawn: Is that a word? Mm hmm. Well, when you're not, when, when you grow through that, past that. Then what? Right. I think that's when friendships break apart. 
[00:08:53] MATT: Right. You would have to have shared experiences that you can build on. Or other things that you have in common for sure. You would have 
[00:08:59] Fawn: to grow together.
[00:09:00] Fawn: Yeah. And that goes for marriages too. Like we really have to be careful how we are entering into a situation. And with what kind of expectation we're entering into the relationship. Like, really think about it. Am I truly wanting to be friends with this person because we're just gonna have fun and enjoy life and learn together?
[00:09:21] Fawn: Or, this person thinks just like I do. Or, this person is threatened like how I'm threatened. So we have, a bond in numbers. What do you call it? Like, uh, when you're together, you have strength in numbers. Strength in numbers, exactly, yes. Like my friend was the wood. My friend was the, the OCD thing that I had, my friend was a piece of wood, back then, I, I know it sounds terrible, but do you understand, kind of where I'm going with this, it's like, I 
[00:09:49] MATT: had, I had a 
[00:09:51] Fawn: relationship with this thing, so, I just want to say, especially now, because there's so much anxiety, let's not make it all about the anxiety, is there something we can do, to just, Get ourselves back in the mode of really looking at what we want to have in life and not think about all that is frightening and scary and incredibly devastating.
[00:10:15] Fawn: How can we turn it around? To have a world that's the opposite of that. In a way, it's kind of going back on knocking on wood. 
[00:10:22] MATT: It's, it's an interesting thing because somebody has to ultimately lead if you are in a relationship like that. Like, let's say at work. Let's say your work just totally, like, stinks.
[00:10:35] MATT: And, when you're hanging out, when you're at work, and you're like, Oh God, I'm at work. You have somebody you can commiserate with. At some point, one of you is going to leave. Or. One of you is going to figure out how to make it better, whatever that better looks like, so I think it requires at least one of you to start trying to, this sounds terrible, alpha beta friends, but, you have to guide without assuming control.
[00:11:04] MATT: You have to start looking for positives, like when I start grousing about work, because everybody does. You know, I hate it when you do this, but you're like say something positive 
[00:11:14] Fawn: well because power of the word Exactly rousing about something you're just gonna perpetuate that thing exactly so to counteract I'm like, okay now say five things the opposite right five things that are positive, right?
[00:11:28] MATT: Sometimes it's difficult find that fifth one but you know, it's important because You know things I think about like Our youngest is learning how to play guitar and like in as much as the guitar strings like when your guitar is always in tune It's like it's almost like on the tuning peg your string knows what in tune is because it's always there and it wants to be there In the same muscle memory in the same way exactly muscle memory mental memory you know if you're always thinking about the negatives then Guess what?
[00:12:02] MATT: You're always going to think about the negatives. Ouch. And that's, that's a painful thing to, to realize. You know, and even in terrible situations, when I've had a position that has been not a good one, there's always something you can look at. Harlan Ellison would say, it's the one rose on top of the massive pile of cow poop.
[00:12:27] MATT: Science fiction author Harlan Ellison said that although he didn't say poop, but that's just it You know, if you look hard enough you will find it You know if you look hard enough for the negative you'll find the negative you look hard enough for the positive You'll find the positive. 
[00:12:46] Fawn: I was listening to Michael Dooley it's such a great reminder, like, I have his books and everything, I think he's just a wonderful person, as far as like, talking, whatever he talks about in his books, I don't really know him in person, but anyway, he was talking about, when you're, like, really, again, going back to what we're told all the time, what we know all the time, is that words have power, and what you repeat, you will get, so if you're, Really listening to yourself.
[00:13:14] Fawn: Do you say I'm tired all the time? I do. I used to say that all the time I'm switching it around right now. But if one is to say I'm so tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired Well, what if you just said the opposite Even if you are if you just say the opposite and seeing how that shifts your energy and how that shifts everything Like let's do that.
[00:13:38] Fawn: So I did that this week with groceries Why did I go to the store four times? Like, it was, it was a nutty thing for me to do. I don't understand why I kept having to go to the store so much. It was because I was feeling anxiety and I wanted to just store up on food at home, you know? And every time, at the register, the poor cashier, she was like, Oh dear, because I was like, What?
[00:14:07] Fawn: You know? It costs money? No, no, no, no. I would just be stressed out at the register. Like, stressed out. I would be holding my forehead. I'm like, Oh my God. I was like, you know, I was trying to comfort myself. I would roll back and forth. On my feet, like, oh my god, oh my 
[00:14:24] MATT: god. Oh, rocking back and forth is not necessarily a healthy sign.
[00:14:30] Fawn: And every time I did that, the cashier felt like, oh, should I scan this other one? It was just terrible. And I thought to myself, okay, okay, it's a good thing we're rich. It's a good thing we're rich. Which is something we started to do years ago. Right. Like when we suddenly had to change the tires on the car or, you know, unexpected bills all of a sudden show up.
[00:14:51] Fawn: We would just start saying, it's a good thing we're rich, even though we definitely didn't feel that, but we would say it and we would start laughing and it helped. Right? 
[00:15:01] MATT: Something I read in a mountain biking magazine when I mountain biked all the time, and I had to read about it all the time too.
[00:15:09] MATT: When you're going up a hill and you're exhausted. Which, of course, happens because, you know, when you descend, you go up. If you don't have a motor, what do you do? You stop. Okay, that's option one. Well, what if you can't really start again because it's steep enough that you won't be able to get going? You smile, and it becomes easier.
[00:15:29] MATT: What?! But it does. I tried it. It's a weird thing. If you smile and you lean into it. It was really funny. Every time I'm going up a hill and I start to smile, it was a really ridiculous advertisement. And it was a picture of a mountain biker going up a hill. And on his shirt, it said, This is what I think about during sex.
[00:15:58] MATT: Really? 
[00:16:00] Fawn: You know, I heard a similar thing for running. And this doesn't work. Depending on if you're from a Middle Eastern country, this is not good. but, when you're running and you're tired, if you stick your thumbs up, like, give a thumbs up, Ooh, dear. It helps you to run faster. Because, Or keep going.
[00:16:17] MATT: In European society, that's a good thing. 
[00:16:20] Fawn: Well, I don't know. I don't know. It's some reflexology thing, maybe. But, if you're in the Middle East, you guys, don't, don't do a thumbs up, because that's the middle finger in the Middle East. I don't know if it's still that way. It was that way when I was a 
[00:16:32] MATT: kid. And it's so messed up because in my Teams Messenger and on Slack and whatever, it's really easy to give somebody a thumbs up.
[00:16:41] MATT: And like, I don't do that. I give everybody like a green checkmark. And when people ask me, then I tell them, but I don't go out of my way to tell them. You tell them? Of course, because why aren't you giving me a thumbs 
[00:16:53] Fawn: up? Oh, no, I know do they know why you do that? Do they know that you're married to to a...?
[00:16:58] Fawn: No, 
[00:16:59] MATT: but I just happen to mention I used to work with a guy. Oh, okay um You know in who who's? Spent some time in Saudi, uh, Saudi Arabia as when he was, when he was younger, because his parents were working there. Is that true? Yeah, it 
[00:17:16] Fawn: is. Okay, so I'm not the only one that told you that. No. Okay, good. 
[00:17:20] MATT: Yeah, it was really funny, because, yeah.
[00:17:23] MATT: I gave him a thumbs up immediately after he told me that story. I laughed and he laughed, it's okay. 
[00:17:28] Fawn: Yeah, like if you really want to piss someone off, well you know what, just don't, nevermind. So yeah, you know, gestures like that you have to be careful. But anyway, but apparently that makes you run faster? I don't know 
[00:17:40] MATT: why.
[00:17:40] MATT: I, I believe it, cause it's like your mind, where does your mind go? Up. You know, where does your intention go when you smile? It's like it takes Everything is pointing up. What do they say? It takes like 37 muscles to frown and like 3 to smile or something ridiculous? Right. You know, it's just, you're using different sets of muscles in the same way that when I'm riding I clip in.
[00:18:03] MATT: On a mountain bike that's ridiculous, but I do. I clip in. and you can get power on your downstroke and you can get power on your upstroke. And sometimes I get more power on my upstroke. Because. My down stroke is exhausted. 
[00:18:19] Fawn: It's, it's interesting. Things that point up. When you, if you want to know if something is feeling good for you or not, think about how you're feeling.
[00:18:29] Fawn: If you're feeling uplifted, it's a good decision. If it's not upliftment, if you're feeling any kind of anything else, it's not a good decision. But then what if you're, it's something really good for you, but you have... A feeling like stage fright, like it's good for you to get up and speak, but you have stage fright, you might say, well, that's a bad feeling.
[00:18:54] Fawn: Really take a look at it. Like, no, you have to decipher, that. Is it fear because you don't want to grow? Like, you have to think further about it, befriend the situation. Yeah, I have a public speaking fear, but... What if everybody out there shows the love and I can share something amazing? How does that make me feel?
[00:19:23] Fawn: Now, how do you feel if it feels good uplifted right go and know that you're just scared Right, but not scared because there's something imminently wrong or it's not the right path for you
[00:19:38] Fawn: There is something I wanted to say going back to the knocking on wood. I looked it up And, it's interesting how we find friendship in the littlest thing, but like, apparently if you trace the whole knocking on wood thing, it goes back to Celtic times, pagan cultures.
[00:19:58] Fawn: Like the Celts who thought that gods lived in trees, so knocking on the tree trunk was a way to ask for protection from the spirits. So in a way you are reaching out to a friend. Like, hello, 
[00:20:12] MATT: help. Which is interesting because, uh, the most obvious superstition that I leap to that we still profess, everybody does today, is we say bless you when you sneeze.
[00:20:25] MATT: Oh yeah. Again, it's protection. But from what? Our soul, the belief was your soul was going to leave your body. That was the thought. 
[00:20:36] Fawn: Well, I mean, our souls can leave the body at any time. Well, that's true. Even in perfect health, you can, like, have something else come 
[00:20:42] MATT: through. sneeze, if you didn't say bless you right away, that your soul would leave your body.
[00:20:47] MATT: Right. Again, protection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what happens if I'm off in the middle of the woods and I have a sneezing fit? and there's nobody around. What? I don't know! 
[00:21:00] Fawn: You tell me! Knock on wood, I don't know. Ha ha ha ha! Anyway, let's think higher. Let's think higher. And let's develop our friendships more than a defense mechanism or a defense ritual or a defense circle.
[00:21:19] Fawn: Let's live like everything is beautiful. Well, and 
[00:21:23] MATT: even more importantly, uh, not more importantly, but, but also, yes. Sometimes we develop our friendships for anonymity or for, um, you know, the avoidance, for protection, as you said, but for anonymity, we just want people to like us. You know, let's, let's try and reach a little further.
[00:21:44] MATT: Let's try and actually, you know, Get them to like us for things other than mirroring what they're saying, for instance. 
[00:21:52] Fawn: Well, maybe we should forget about the whole being liked thing and we should just like ourselves and then look to other people to see what we like in other people. 
[00:22:02] MATT: Hey, so I choose, not you choose?
[00:22:05] MATT: What do you mean? Well, I choose you! Like Pokemon. 
[00:22:09] Fawn: I don't understand what you're saying. 
[00:22:12] MATT: Well, sometimes we become friends with people because they really want to be our friend. Yeah, and sometimes we become friends with people because I really want to be your friend and sometimes it's mutual at the same time 
[00:22:23] Fawn: Yeah, I think about my friend Sarah and like my other friends.
[00:22:26] Fawn: I'm like, look at you all adorable and gorgeous Look at you. Yeah, I'm just like what a you know, what like when I'm looking for a romantic comedy And I just want to look at romantic comedies, I love them so much, I, I just, that's how I, I look at people, like, I want to tune in to you, you're fantastic, look at you, I praise you, anyway, make sure that you have a joyful every day, have a good every day, no matter what is going on out there, you guys, no matter what is going on, keep pointing up.
[00:23:05] Fawn: There 
[00:23:05] MATT: you go. And keep being you. And if that means you're letting your freak flag fly the way I do, then that's 
[00:23:11] Fawn: what you do. Always Always lead with the freak flag.
[00:23:16] Fawn: Always be down to clown. Yeah, that's what we say. You wanna explain what that means before we go? 
[00:23:21] MATT: That means you're okay being 
[00:23:23] MATT: silly. We get so excited when our friends do something with us.
[00:23:30] MATT: Or like, they'll say yes to something that most people would say no to. Like what I mean, it's nothing sinister or it's nothing like risque It's like what is it or like, you know, like people who was we're like, hey, we have a podcast Do you want to come talk with us? They're like sure never been on a podcast.
[00:23:47] MATT: Don't know what it is They're like, yeah, that's a person that's down to clown Like up for up for an adventure adventure. Yes, not taking things so seriously, right for God's sake There you go. Anyway, love you Talk to you later in just a few days, okay? Be well.